Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm just curious to know how people feel about the banning of certain reptiles in their states, since I'm begining to see the purpose of them. I say this because of the show I went to today, Hamburg PA. It's rediculious, I feel like I'm at a black market for reptiles when I go to shows like that, everywhere I look I see someone stupid buying a nile croc, green annie, burm, or any and all of the big species of reptile not suitable for most people. I mean honestly what is the problem with the banning of certain reptiles? If you are qualified you can easily attain a needed lisnce if you take care of your animals. Is it the cost of the lisence? If you feel so strongly that your animals are well cared for why does it matter? If you can't afford an $85 lisence fee, how can you keep an animal such as a burm? I remeber I fought on the other side not too long ago but seeing things like today make me change my mind, it's just dumb the things that go on. I mean it's even gotten to the point where I see people stealing animals and hear stories of someone just gettin albino balls stolen and so on. I mean in some situations such as seeing that all big species of reptile go to good homes this could help. I mean if anyone the banning of these species would certainly affect me considering I keep burms, retics, condas, rocks, monitors, ect., but i'd be willing to do what it takes to get a needed lisence if it keeps uncapable people from ruining the lives of beautiful animals. Sorry, needed to vent, just let me know what you think about the whole situation.

saav,
I completley understand your point but the problem is that most places that are banning herps are usually not allowing any type of liscensing or permits. And another problem is that some cities are banniing snakes in very large groups, such as no boids(including ball and children pythons) or no snakes over 4'. I strongly feel that there should be some sort of liscensing requirement. Simular to what florida does for their hots. you have to have 1000 hours of apprenticeship from a liscensed keeper in order to obtain your hot liscense. They should implement something like that for the dangerous herps. You can not get a burm, rock, indian, retic, scrub, or crocidillian, just to name a few) until you have learned what is necassay and paid a liscense fee and proved through some sort of testing that oyu are able to care for the animal properly. Todd

First off, those areas requiring a paid license have to call the permit something else. Call it what it really is...a tax.
The reality of banning certain reptiles is a joke. I say this speaking from the experience of working with different lobbying groups over the years, with our biggest opponents being animal rights groups.
Exactly how dangerous is the reptile problem on the streets? How much harm have the caused? How many people have been killed, or injured by them?
Statistically, more people have been killed, and injured by dogs than any other animal. With the pedigreed breed that is most often listed in dog bite reports being the Cocker Spaniel.
Do we ban dogs? Do we ban Cocker Spaniels? No?
Why is a dog license so inexpensive? It cost far more to care for a dog than my RTB or burms.
The political reality being what it is, that nobody cares about people that keep snakes. Most people are afraid of them. Most people still equate them with the devil. So we as herp owners have no political clout.
Banning reptiles will have the same effect on our society as gun control.
It does nothing. But it gets a politicians name out there for all to see. The NY herp ban is laughable, when I stop and think of all the other dangerous things there are in NY to harm a community. Gangs, Pit Bulls...etc...and they ban large boids.
Ya know..NYC has some of the toughest gun laws in the US, second I believe behind Washington DC. Yet there are gun murders there weekly.
And they ban large snakes. It has nothing to do with reptiles my friends...it is merely politics.
We have no political clout. And that is what it boils down to.
And the politicians saved the world, because they banned snakes.
And as far as people going to shows and buying crocodilians, etc...you said there were lots of stupid people buying them...
It is stupid that should be out outlawed. Because stupidity is what is going to bring the bans.
I dont know if I worded this post correctly, but I think we all understand what I'm trying to say. I hope.

I agree with Todd, most places that have banned reptiles, don't allow for a permit or anything. Yeah, it's become a problem for reptiles going into the wrong hands, but you just can't take it as far as to banning reptile owning without a permit. I think the best way to go would be to be more cautious to who to sell the reptile to. I mean there could be a 5 year kid with $100 walking through a show, and buys a burmese python. Why would anything think for one second that a 5 year old kid would be able to take care of such a massive snake? I think it's really the dealers that need to start thinking about the snakes more and start selling it to appropriate buyers. I mean make the person let you know that he can take care of a burmese python or an anaconda, let him tell you what it takes to own one. I am under the age of 18 still, not buy much, but still am. I own a 7' female green anaconda, 9' Male Green x Yellow Cross anaconda, a 5' Male Albino Burm, and then a little 3' yellow anaconda. I know what it takes to own these snakes, I meet all the requirments for them, from housing to humidity, and I knew what I was doing before I got everyone of them. I mean yeah, I might sell a snake here or there, because I want to slim down my collection, but it happens. But my point is, dealers should be more aware of who they sell their reptiles too. Sorry, I guess I kinda went off with a lot of stuff not needed on that one, but hey, I try!

~Ben

I've heard it before on the forum. Stupid should HURT! LOL
-----
DZ

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

Its the fact that there will not likely be a permit system which concerns me more. Maybe a few of these shows need to be a little more regulated but the bans will not work. They will ultimately eliminate the hobby to everyone. Venomous snakes is my biggest concern right now since they are facing the most trouble. While there are a ton of irresponsible people within the hobby, the level of experience of the venomous keepers by far exceeds that of the large constrictor keepers. The problem with this is..both require a much higher level of demand than the hobby is showing. My Herpetological society is focusing on a responsible message to herpers and the public as well as educating as many people as we can on the issues facing this hobby. I understand the concern these shows bring (while I have never been to Hamburg..I have been to plenty of "low life" reptile shows) but I also understand the way the law works. Once a lawmaker decides to pass a law in favor of the general interest of the public (safety from dangerous reptiles) it is not likely to move from there. Illinois has had an all out ban of venomous snakes and large constrictors (over 15 ft) for years now and it is not moving foward in fair laws. In fact, even once permitted individuals are not being able to keep many reptile species. This hobby is a delicate one so I recommend if you want to see a change where you can enjoy working with your animals in the future...you get involved with a responsible organization.

In my opinion, the job of government is not to protect us from ourselves. These same idiots that you see buying these animals are still going to be able to buy whatever dogs, cats, birds, etc that they want and will probably abuse. They will still have children, which they are probably completely incabable of raising. They can probably go buy whatever guns they want, can drive a car, can vote, etc, blah blah blah. Where does the government eventually stop inmplementing laws? Once they start, it is a slippery slope and I don't think it's flawed logic to think that will be the case.

Lance

The thing that makes the N.Y. ban so ridiculous is no one knows who you are supposed to pay the license fee to. Also once you license your animals they can stop out at any time to check on your animals and if they feel it necessary confiscate your animals. So if one of these "inspectors" has a liking for one of your animals, you can kiss it goodbye. Plus if you register them and they put in an all out ban (remove grandfather clause) they know where to come to get the animals. Most of the people on this site aren't the ones who need to be regulated, we love and take care of our animals, its the ones who buy them because they look cool or want to show their friends at a party how cool it is to watch them eat that need to be regulated.
Scott

Most people on here may love their animals but are far from being qualified to keep these snakes. Most of this entire website is showing off pets or showing off some basic knowledge. I am willing to bet less than 105 of people have actually gone to the library to read some of the published journals about any of the snakes they keep. The internet is a usefull tool but it is abused and seen as a primary source. And often times people are not going to the best places on the net for information. A NERD caresheet may be a good basic information source but they cannot tell you things professionals have learned in the field.

That may be true. I might have misspoke and hoped that the people on this site have done the research needed before deciding to keep these snakes as I and obviously you did. You are right this site shouldn't be a primary source of information on keeping these snakes but at least it is somewhere people can go to get information from people who have experience, such as Rob Carmichael(even though he has left the forum for now) and a few others that I can't think of right now.
Scott

Well said Eunictus. I have posted on here several times (especially to the young keepers) that this should be the absolute last place on goes to find answers. People used to be able to go and find out information that they needed. And let me tell you that was much harder to do back in the late 70's and early 80's then it is now. There is so much information out there that is readily available for anyone that is willing to do a little research and spend a little money. Society has gotten lazy and everyone just expect others to just feed them the answers. It should not work that way, and everytime I answer redundant questions, I hate myself but I do it cuz I hope it will help the animal. Todd

I was at a show yesterday that had lots of baby gators...every one of them sold...I live in oregon...so you cant keep one outside more than a few months a year...so i am wondering what is going to happen to all these gators...my opinion is they shouldnt be legal without a permit because most people are not going to be able to provide a heated secure enclosure for the gator.