Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is in regard to the recent “protection” thread, below.
I hear allot of folks are packin’.

I’m just curious. Does anyone have a true story, not an “I heard of”, where a herper actually had to use a weapon in self-defense and in a situation that was not provoked by the herper himself or herself?

Regards, Bill

While I had a friend that was almost ready to use his one night by being trying to be forced off the road, I had to " brandish " mine several times and would of used it in another case. I had reported on this site that we were fired upon one time in the day light hours at a far out and away rest stop. The bullets came from across the mountain. Another time we were being followed for miles at night at a forsaken area and after we pulled over several times, the follower continued till we flashed the gun. Then there was that incident very similar to one of mine that happened on highway 277 of Texas last year. Mine was some years ago though and had a gun leveled at us but we retorted back with showing ours leveled at the person and exclaiming that we would use it since we outnumbered the other person. As far of " have we ever used it " ? Not actually fired but in past history of certain areas, we were glad to know later that we were armed in case of. Piece of mind ? A long time ago I foiled a robbery at the place that I worked at with my handgun. The would be robber had a small handgun but we found out later it wasn't loaded. Of course I wouldn't unconsciously use a handgun without clearly thinking of the consequences. But then someone could say that would or could be a split fraction of a second and I would have to agree on that.

Last year I did not carry a fire arm but carried a high power BB gun "Yes I know its virtualy inefective but anyway" I had to draw it on several ocations but mainly out of paranoia of being alone so far out. I was never actualy phisicaly provoked. Unfortunatly my question below is for not. Mainly do to regulations regarding my research "As well as my local and state gun laws" everything is just geting to complicated and expencive so as of now I am out. I will no longer be researching me local herps. I will however keep my exotics so may be in those forums from tiem to time but I would say i will rarly be in this one anymore. It is very very unfortunate but while rasing a family and trying to stay within the limits of the law I just #1 Cant aford to herp anymore and #2 all the regulations and licences and permits have made my research more work that its worth and its no fun anymore. I would like to thank everyone for there help from the begining. Maybe some day I will decide to get back into it but not for a long while

years ago when it was safe to camp out at the famous Tee Pees ( you all know where it is ) of River Road Texas, we were being annoyed by a horsed fellow from across the river. We gave him food and a few dollars. But he was persistent to stick around and we became very paranoid. He didn't speak any gringo and we didn't speak any espanol. One of us whipped out a BB/pellet gun that looked like one of the forerunners of the Desert Eagle pistol for a little target practice and off he went to later be captured and questioned by the Border Patrol for something. He kept telling them that we had a huge gun but didn't aim it at him. They in turn wanted to see the gun and laughed when they saw it was only a BB pistol.

I don't think this hobby is that important to either take a life or give one.

I also think it's pretty easy to avoid such situations. If it ever does happen to me again (yea, I've been in a situation where a gun might have changed the situation... although I was fossil hunting at the time with a friend) I think I'll do what I did then and avoid the spot.

There's just too much room for error in the case of packing a gun.

>>While I had a friend that was almost ready to use his one night by being trying to be forced off the road, I had to " brandish " mine several times and would of used it in another case. I had reported on this site that we were fired upon one time in the day light hours at a far out and away rest stop. The bullets came from across the mountain. Another time we were being followed for miles at night at a forsaken area and after we pulled over several times, the follower continued till we flashed the gun. Then there was that incident very similar to one of mine that happened on highway 277 of Texas last year. Mine was some years ago though and had a gun leveled at us but we retorted back with showing ours leveled at the person and exclaiming that we would use it since we outnumbered the other person. As far of " have we ever used it " ? Not actually fired but in past history of certain areas, we were glad to know later that we were armed in case of. Piece of mind ? A long time ago I foiled a robbery at the place that I worked at with my handgun. The would be robber had a small handgun but we found out later it wasn't loaded. Of course I wouldn't unconsciously use a handgun without clearly thinking of the consequences. But then someone could say that would or could be a split fraction of a second and I would have to agree on that.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

while the DRUG days of the west Texas was going on. I'm talking the famous trafficking area that is in the book of " The life and Times of a Drug lord " . Recommended reading for anybody down there in the 70ties and 80ties. I've heard that some of us are lucky to not of have had a serious encounter with those drug runners and the across the river of Presidio town of Ojinaga drug cartels. This will bring up memories of the older west Texas hunters!

I would like to hear from some people that have been at it for manny manny years and have never carried anything more than maybe a hunting knife and never had a problem/

Jason,
This is just one person's experiences and not a judgment on others' preferences or rights as Americans to bear arms.

I've snake hunted since I was 10. That means 46 years of field observation and collecting all over this beautiful country.
This also includes countries such as Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, Peoples Republic of China, France, Germany, Canada, Mexico, Trinidad, and Panama.

With the exception of Vietnam in 1968, I've never carried or felt the need to carry a weapon.

As for bears, I've fished in the heart of Grizzly country and made allot of noise and carried pepper spray ( a non-lethal alternative to a firearm). I live in the heart of black bear country and cannot give you any bad incidents.

Mountain lions can be a problem in some parts of the U.S. where people are encroaching. Some others may comment on this.

I’ve had nothing but positive experiences with law enforcement everywhere,

I’ve had negative experiences with landowners, where I was in the wrong. A smile and an apology go along way. Several times the landowner invited me back to fish or snake hunt.

Sometimes the presence of a weapon can have disastrous potentials. It can escalate an otherwise minor conflict.
Consider real scenario of an acquaintance who was parked at the entrance to a Boy Scout Camp (on Boy Scout road in west Texas). A pickup of “scouts” challenged his right to be there. He was perfectly legal.
Words got hot, but this man talked them down and quieted the situation. (He got their names and later reported them to BS headquarters.)
Once he gained their confidence, one “scout” admitted that he was holding a loaded handgun, ready to use it, while he was in the truck.
Now consider the possibilities if the naturalist had a handgun and this kid pulled out the first gun. The potential of escalation is high in the name of self defense.
No good could have come from that, and lives on both sides could be lost or ruined.

Sorry to be long winded… We old guys do that..

Finally, if you decide the ultimate protection is for you, please attend gun safety classes and practice, practice, practice.
When around most handgun owners, the safest place to be is the target!!!!
Regards, Bill

Thank you for the reply. My biggest fear out there is of the potential for a predator to go on the attack such as a lion. In all honesty I really don’t want to carry a gun out there. I would rather just go about my business and be on my way with no problems. As stated previously I do normally carry a fairly high power CO2 Pellet handgun while out doing my research and as of yet have never had to use it. I am told be avid hunters and outdoors people that its not actually the killing of an attacker that they want to do but rather in 100% of the cases I have listened to there was simply a warning shot fired and the sound from the blast scares off any potential problems. My CO2 gun is fairly loud for what it is but I am not sure still if it were loud enough to scare anything off. I do carry a rather large hunting knife every time I go into the national forest and pepper spray sounds like a good idea. I was recently confronted with an offer for a free supply of pepper spray and turned it down as I had no need for it but I may just make a phone call tomorrow and see if it is still available. Please keep the posts coming I am very interested in hearing more. Further more I would like to extend my sincere apologies for my post above in regards to giving up my research al together. I had a few days to sleep on it and take a much needed break and realize that quitting is not the answer. While I may scale back a tinny bit I will continue with my research as insignificant as it may seem now some day it may help bring a species back from near extinction. Thank you everyone who have taken the time to comment on the matters of protection while herping, your posts have made a huge difference in the way this herper sees and goes about doing things in this topic on a daily basis.
My Reptiles Colection and Research

That's the ticket, Jason. We all gotta start somewhere and Lord knows without people out in the field, a lot of facts will remain uncovered. Keep up the good work.
Todd Hughes

When out in the wilderness, especially in the dark of night. It is not a bad idea to have a firearm for protection. Not only from animal predators but from human predators as well. The only difference between the two is that the human predators are "usually" deterred from attacking by the sight of a gun. When out there at night we're all possible game. Just decide what makes you feel safer. Armed or unarmed.

As stated before. I am not worried about humans. I can handle myself very well and have had to on a few occasions in my life “never herping” The only thing that I fear would be animal predators but seemingly they are all possible to scare away. I think the most important weapon to have is an understanding and an education before getting into this type of field work. As long as you keep your wits about you everything should be fine. To make a long story short, don’t present yourself as prey and don’t let anything sneak up on you. I think those are the best 2 things I can think of. A few times in the woods kneeling down looking under stuff I have had to remind myself that kneeling in and around shrubs puts you in the same shape and position as a would be lion dinner so now I try not to do it.
My reptile research and collection

I have and do carry a small .45 auto when I am in areas that I know to be frequented by wild hogs. And I have had occasion to
fire it (although into the ground, not at the hogs). That has
been sufficient to turn them around thus far.

Quote.
As stated before. I am not worried about humans. I can handle myself very well and have had to on a few occasions in my life “never herping” The only thing that I fear would be animal predators but seemingly they are all possible to scare away. I think the most important weapon to have is an understanding and an education before getting into this type of field work
end quote.

It is all about the understanding/education.
As someone who has spent the last 30 years in the field, primarly as a herper, but as a naturalist as well. I've seen and been around Black and Brown Bears, Followed a Mountain Lion to photograph, hunted Wild Boars among other things, and all in all have seen lots of "dangerous" animals. Personally, I think you and a few others have it backwards, man is the most dangerous animal. I am much more afraid of man, than any wild animal. That of course, is MHO.
My closest calls (not counting here in urban CA)have been an indian reservation in AZ, and along the borders of AZ and TX.