Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I mainly breed monitors, however i have a fascination with morelia and keep and breed bredls and jungles.

here is the deal....

i know that multi clutching in monitors is directly related to nesting material (ie, the better the nesting, the better the female afterward, the sooner she ovulates).

what if this is not only true of varanids, what if it is true of reptiles in general. Frank Retes recently posted a pic of a desert tort who layed three clutches in a couple months, now wait that is not supposed to happen. in the eighties multi clutching in colubrids was unheard of, now it is common. my kimberly rocks lay every three weeks (wait that is not supposed to happen either)

are we as python keepers not up to date?

this year i am experimenting with new nesting on my bredls and jungles. anybody have any ideas? what do they lay in in oz? do they lay in tree trunks, if so, what is in the tree trunks?

pythons in captivity ovulate,they breed, they lay and then they look like crap. is this natural?

we put a nest box in there. but what about choices?

maybe i will be the only one that will experiment, i hope not though.

looking forward to everybody's thoughts. cheers, andrew

varanuscreations.com
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Varanus Creations

They don't have the mechanisms for it. Know why? They maternally incubate their eggs. And they have a long period of gravidity. Actually, all Boids do. Pythons are gravid for 60 days and eggs are maternally incubated (in the wild) for another 60 days. The resources are simply not there for a female to multi-clutch. Same with boas, only instead of maternally incubating shelled eggs, they hold unshelled ovum in a cavity within their bodies and deposit them when they are ready to "hatch" And NO, you cannot artificially incubate the eggs and pump the female back up and breed her in the same year. Monitors its easy because they fertilize AND shell their eggs AS THEY ARE BEING LAID!! And once they are buried, that's it: the female is free to breed and deposit more eggs. The mechanism(s) to cycle and ovulate and produce follicles is a yearly event in boids and you cannot change that with ANY amount of husbandry. Ask Frank. He'll explain it to you.

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My banner multi-clutched!!

Sorry.
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what monitors do you breed jeff?

andrew
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Varanus Creations

Hopefully Kimberlies, Caudos, and Pimburas eventually.
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i did ask frank, he seemed to think there was something to this thought. i am simply not ready to accept this. we shall see, i am probably just too stubborn. lol. thanks jeff, i do appreciate your reply.

andrew

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Varanus Creations

Or I'll do it on Varanus.net and see what he says. I totally value that dude's opinion as he's been herping longer than I've been alive.

But I stand by my "facts"....heh heh...
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For species that are not known to provide shivering thermowhatever...lol. Do they still stay coiled around the eggs until they hatch, or do they leave the eggs? I would imagine they go bask and then return to warm them, but wasn't sure. Say a ball python for example.
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But I don't think shivering has been witnessed in all the one that have been bred in captivity. But even the ones that shiver go and bask and go and soak up water and come back to the clutch.
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What about blue beauty snakes--since they coil around their clutch, would it be impossible for them to double clutch?

I would think that the fact that pythons maternally incubate would make them more likely to double clutch. Think about it: they have enough reserves after laying eggs to coil around them without food for two additional months. Compare this to colubrids who don't have to wait the additional time after laying to gain back weight.

I bet a lot of people used to say milk and kingsnakes couldn't double clutch.

Jake

The reason that colubrids double clutch ISN'T because they don't maternally incubate (well, not the sole reason). The reason they can double clutch is because they become gravid and lay eggs within 2 weeks!!! Pythons do the same thing in a period of FIVE WEEKS, PLUS they maternally incubate.
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so it seems it is possible. perhaps we just have a lot of advances to make in husbandry, cheers
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Varanus Creations

I love bredli and cheynei as well. I would also like to work with the monitors you do, but I'm only home at night, which doesn't work well with varanids.
I think if it could be done, Frank would have done it. I asked him about multiclutching once and he told me that he got a clutch out about every 11 months. I have seen this in my childrens pythons and I think it may be pretty normal. It may very well be possible, but why didn't Frank do it? I just had an 18 month children's python lay a clutch of 7 eggs on sand under a hide. They all look good. She looks great. We'll see how they turn out.
Justin

Australian Addiction Reptiles

i didn't know that night hours don't work for monitors, lol. they don't give a crap. i also leave my lights on 24/7, they live in burrows at my place anyhow. i take care of them at night most of the time. they eat, burrow, have good temps, breed like crazy, etc. under 24/7 light.

cheers, andrew
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Varanus Creations

I guess the main problem with the monitors for me is time. It seems like it was easier for me to have success with pythons and knob-tails than with ackies with my schedule. They are also a heck of a lot more expensive to feed. I did get one clutch before grad school started. After that is was all downhill. I'll try varanids again later. I really want some flavies and pilbarensis. Glauerti are nice too.
Justin

But I ahve to disagree. Having eggs every 11 MONTHS is far different than doubole clutching in my opinion. FAR different.
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that multi-clutching has been recorded on many occasions. I for one believe the man.

i think we have to face it as python keepers that our husbandry down right sucks. so what if we breed, breeding is easy, our husbandry sucks.

oh well, we will see

andrew
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Varanus Creations

Well, forge the way. What can you come up with to better our nesting? I think before you say that everything sucks you should see what they do in nature and find out what they are capable of. It seems pretty silly to say that everything sucks until you have found something better. Which species multiclutch? How often do they multiclutch? 2 per year? I am just curious what you are basing your observations on. A bit more detail would be good. I agree to some extent that I think we MAY have potential to do greater things, but I have no basis for thinking such. If Frank can't get a ton of clutches out of them, what chance do we have? The guy has a sixth sense for that sort of thing. I am lucky to have my five senses.
Justin

We just give them no choices in captivity. boelens for instance, everyone is trying to breed them like they would burmese pythons. instead boelens live on top of mountains with extreme temp changes from hot to cold and extreme uv. why not give boelens a chance and maybe one will live for more than a couple years in captivity.

it does suck (our husbandry) and i am part of the problem. we have become complacent and satisfied, i don't think that is the answer.

i will find out what they lay in in nature and try to experiment, the least i can do is screw it up.

breedng reptiles is easy, it is what is beyond that, that i am finding difficult.

cheers
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Varanus Creations