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I remember seeing them back in the 90's, and thinking,"One day I'll have to get one of those". I've never been in the milk snake circle, but I know that I haven't seen them advertised in a while.
I know that they were just a phase Bill Love named, but are they the same as hypos? Did the name change?
Thanks,
Dusty

I Think the "Tangerine Dream" Hondurans are just regular tangerine pase hondurans. i purchased this female (below) as a "Tangerine Dream" she had no tipping for a long while then she escaped... when i got her back she had tons of tipping... the only thing that made up for that was that she was a lil over 3feet long when i got her back.

A few months old.

A week after i got her back.

~ZF

Hey Dusty, welcome to the Milk forum brotha! If I remember correctly the Tangerine Dreams were not Hypos but the first Hypos did "pop" out of that line. I think this snake has fallen into the category of "name abuse", meaning any nice normal is a Tangerine Dream on the classifieds. I think a few of the other guys on here who have been involved with Hondos for a long while will better answer your question, but I have not seen any around in a while either. A good bet would be you'd find some at one of the larger shows like Daytona. They were/ are beautiful snakes. However you can't go wrong with a Hypo. This reminds me of how some people were actually bummed about the Hypo Brooksi appearing. because it meant now it was easier to have a super yellow Brooksi in your collection....when way back when it really meant something when you had one. Did you ever score those Axanthic Subocs? Tom Stevens

Thanks for the 411 on the hondos bro. I know Cherryville Farms had OR has some of the Tang. Dream line before they had their fire accident. Not sure about now.
I am getting the 1.1 axanthic hets so that I can have yet another pair that will produce a very limited number of normal axanthics, which are much more scarce than the axanthic blondes. I am breeding my axanthic female with a friend's albino to get some triple hets that we are gonna split 50/50. Definitely can't go wrong there. I just got a pumpkin orange Panther Canyon suboc too. There might be an albino project soon. I am starting to actually go somewhere with my collection. How are you doing with your brooksi and Pituophis?
Talk to you soon, man.
Dusty

>>... I haven't seen them advertised in a while...I know that they were just a phase Bill Love named, but are they the same as hypos? Did the name change?
>>Dusty

Dusty,

Tangerine Dreams, named by Bill and Kathy Love as you say, were not hypos, but were pretty and clean tangerine hondurans with jet-black rings as is the case with wild Hondurans. In fact, the original snake that was the patriarch of their Tangerine Dream line was a wild-caught animal. Bill bought it for $15 at an import shop in Miami, where it was misidentified as a coral snake. Unknown to them, it was also het/hypo.

Anyway, Bill and Kathy developed their Dream line and were surprised in 1993 when two hypo babies -- lighter, brighter orange and with purplish-brown rings where a normal or tangerine dream would have black rings -- hatched out of a clutch from their tangerine dream line. They had bred the male to one of its daughters, which, it turns out, had inherited a hypo gene from its het father, as 50% of such babies do.

Quoting an article i wrote in 1996 for a British herp magazine:

"The changes are so distinctive they were immediately apparent even among hatchlings from clutches of Bill and Kathy Love’s “Tangerine Dream” Hondurans, which have a positive reputation for exceptional color (the Loves co-owned Ft. Myers, Florida-based Glades Herp reptile business until early 1996 and retained the Colubrid collection after selling their interest in the business).

The Loves hatched five hypos--1.1 in 1993; 2.0 in 1994, and 1.0 in 1995. (In 1996) I obtained the 1993 pair and two older related females, one a het and one a possible het. Another breeder obtained one of the 1994 males. All the hypos came from pairings of the Loves’ original “Tangerine Dream” male (which died in 1995) and his daughters. They were produced in ratios consistent with a simple recessive mutation.
This year will be the first for potential breedings from hypo X hypo and hypo X het pairings. At the time of this writing (late April 1996) the hypo male has been observed copulating with the het and possible het females and (in outcrosses to introduce new blood) normal females; the hypo female is due to shed and will be paired with the male early in May.
So far, only two other hypos have come to light. Both males, they hatched in 1995 in another Florida breeder’s collection. He had a male offspring of the Loves’ “Tangerine Dream” male, and for the first time in 1995 paired it with one of its own daughters, resulting in the appearance of the hypos. Again, this is consistent with a simple recessive mutation. There are many breeders with “Tangerine Dream” stock from the Loves, however, and it’s not unlikely they would have inbred them to produce more “Dream” Hondurans, so it’s also not unlikely a few other hypos may have appeared in other collections or will now that the link is known."

I was lucky enough to produce eight hypo babies in 1996 from the animals I got from the Loves.

You can read more about the origins of all three recessive Hondo morphs, and the efforts to create the double-morphs and triple morphs, in the September 2002 issue of Reptiles Magazine.

peace
terry