Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What are you doing giving Micheal Jackson restricted species permits when bonafide biologists trying to do conservation work in CA. are denied???? Is MJ funding the department these days???? It seems VERY ODD to me that a defunct popstar can acquire these permits for his private zoo, a "facility" as I was told by your department. He does not exhibit these animals to the public, he is pursuing absolutely NO SCIENTIFIC STUDIES of any kind, he is basically not doing anything educational or worthwhile with these animals. And yet he can get a permit that requires quite alot of documentation and experience?

Whos the crooked stick at CDFG, someone is getting some serious lining in their pockets. There is NO OTHER EXPLANATION AT ALL.

Wouldnt surprise me if the tiger you murdered was MJ's too.
You folks are a piece of work, does the CDFG even hire biologists or scientists anymore?? Are things that bad that you take money from a nitwit like MJ?? You guys should explain this to the general public so we dont think you are operating alittle private permit board on the side. Or are you?????

Lateralis,

you are my hero. i know longer live on the left coast, but i sympathize with your frustration. you're 100 percent correct in your summary of the cal fish and game bunch. most can't tell the difference between a coastal horned lilzard, and a desert horned lizard. yes, but they know better than us. they must protect the people from themselves at all times, or they just wouldn't feel good about their jobs. now i will point out on a different note, as an avid fisherman the dept has made some significant strides to fishing coastal waters and the conservation of certain species, but on the herp side there a little off the deep end. i once saw a (KGB), I MEAN CALIFORNIA fish and game agent from that state harassing a vendor at an irba show in san diego over them selling cb central american banded geckos, claiming they were illegally collected from the local desert and they were going to try and give this person a ticket and take there lizards. i couldn't believe what was happening. your right, maybe if we all bleached our skin and acted like we were from outer space we could get our heloderm permits without having to sign of over our first born rights and get a signed letter from president bush stating what accomplished herpers we all are. sorry for the rant but these government agency, feel good, whack job types really get me to speak my mind.

HARDCORE

Thanks, I am now cooled alittle, former profs describe me as, "brash and outspoken but in a good way!" The CDFG has done some good work, and they have some excellent people, BUT, I question, as is my right, the fact that legitimate, documented, data-sharing, professionals are put through HLEL to do serious work and crackpots with lots of $ can manuever through the system.
Its not that I dont understand, its that the population in this country are LETTING them treat us like collective idiots while we dotter about worried about our own little "neverlands". I am but one in that pop., perhaps more could bring about some positive change.
I babble.....

I did (state-native 'crotes) and also had one of the first Sec. 185.5, Title 14 permits for breeding boas and Cal Kings, meaning that I was accountable for my herpetocultural activities to CDF&G on an annual basis. Did I like having to do that? No. Was Phil Nelms a prick? Yes. Did I ever operate under the assumption that CDF&G gave a crap about me? Of course not. I lived in California, liked keeping snakes, hoped that CDF&G would worry more about how many oreganus got plowed under so that you and I would have to drive five less miles to our nearest local Wal-Mart than trying to set me up with a road-killed ruber on Whitewater. But, naiivete doesn't get you, me, or California snake populations anywhere and without meaning to be too terse about it, throwing darts at Michael Jackson, who doesn't have anything to do with us here in the real world accomplishes nothing. CDF&G is a beauracracy, it's wardens are cops who lucked into the 'cush job the rest of the sheriff deputies and beat cops couldn't get into (= not having to chase crackheads and gang-bangers at 3:00AM) and the best you and I can do is live with it. Or, do what I did and quit looking for answer-less scapegoats at which to point the finger: Leave the state. Good luck with your herpetoculture/ field herping,

Erik Loza

I am not pointing fingers at anybody so much as voicing what needs to be said - the permit process is full of holes and abused by those who have enough $ to do so.
Legitimate people, trying to do legitimate work are suffering because of morons who want a tiger, or a chimp or any other animal that their money will finagle permits for. If everyone fled the state and gave up trying to make a positive impact on these regs, well lets just say I am glad I choose to stick around and point out those who are abusing the system. MJ is abusing the system, his neverland ranch is classified as a "public facility" under the permit BUT have you, JOE PUBLIC, ever been allowed to visit???? Exactly, neither has any other member of the public, a public whos tax dollars pay the salary of those who are giving out the permits to crackpots like MJ.
Maybe if you had stayed in CA, your reputation with being the first to be permitted for what you mention might have helped our case.

I don't know about the public not having access to Neverland. Kinda looks like there's plenty of access...if you're under the age of ten.

~~Greg~~

Just curious: Is there a specific permit that you've been denied by CDF&G or is there a particular instance where they mistreated you or are you just presuming to speak on our behalf? I ask because the connection between your current and my former ability to keep snakes/ do things with snakes in the state still isn't clear to me. If you're intent on complaining about Michael Jackson, why not point the finger at the feds? Exotic wildlife at that level is, in part, regulated by the USDFW since it most likely had to cross state lines to get to his facility. And there's probably some USDA involvement, too, since some of those species would be categorized as "livestock". I guess what I'm asking is: Do you have a specific grievance with CDF&G or are you just typing?

CDFG regulates state permits, if USDA gives you the go ahead and the state does not then that is it you are not to be permitted. USDA and USFWS are involved in state permitting to some degree but it is the state agency that is the lead on permitting in state.

As far as singling out MJ, well what is a defunct popstar pedophile doing with the animals that he has?? Is he generating anything of scientific importance, NO, is exhibiting the animals for the betterment and education of the public NO, so how can he get these permits so easily??? BECAUSE HE HAS ALOT OF MONEY AND HES MICHAEL JACKSON . Remember folks, 10% of the population hold 40% of the wealth in this country, now do you understand what is going on?????

Its all politics....the government has gotten out of hand...who's decision is it to protect yourself?? Yours? NO...theres! Just don't seem right to me.

Chris
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