Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everybody. This is my first post here though I've been lurking for a few weeks now. Nice to finally meet you all

I have a couple of questions about D. tinctorius and dart frogs in general.

First, I don't have any frogs at the moment. In fact, I'm still in the process of planning my vivarium so I expect it will probably be a while before I get any frogs. I'm starting off with a 10 gallon viv with plans on upgrading to a larger one when I get some experience under my belt. Is this okay for one or two frogs? Should I start off with something larger?

Second, about tincs. Are these a suitable first dart frog? I've read A LOT of conflicting information on what makes an appropriate first frog (in fact, all the information I've read about vivs and dart frogs in general seems to be conflicting!). What about their calls? This could be an issue for me since I don't live alone. What do they sound like and how loud are they in relation to, say, crickets? I've read that they only call during the day. Is this true?

Well, I have more questions but I think that's probably enough for now. I hope there's someone knowledgable that's willing to help me. Thanks!!

You can hear the tinc'c call and some others at

www.doylesdartden.com

go to the species sheet data/care sheets to hear them.

A lot of the information you get are from individual experiences, so many may be conflicting. There's more than one protocol that works.

As far as calls, they call during the day, as they are diurnal, so only active during day light hours. In my experience, I can't even hear them unless my ear is right next to the tank, with the exception of the D. leucomelas. They aren't persistent callers like chorus frogs for sure. I've never found them annoying at all. Most just sound like a bird chirp or trill, which is really rather pleasant. My own environment is isolated far away from background noises such as traffic, airplanes, gun shots, sirens, loud music, machinery noise, or neighborhood parties, etc., so when I experience these on a trip or visit elsewhere, they drive me nuts. I doubt they will bother your room mate.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

Thank you very much for your helpful responses agcarf and slaytonp. That's good to hear about their call volume and, thanks to agcarf's link, I've since heard the calls and I agree, it does sound very pleasant.

I'm strongly considering a larger tank instead of the ten gallon.

About heating... I think I'm going to go with a submersible heater for the water resevoir under the false bottom. But would an under-tank heater work for that purpose? Would it warm the water sufficiently through the glass? Just curious... and possibly for future reference. Thanks

--Chris

Unless your house gets really cold it is unlikely that you will need a heater in the tank. The lights ontop of the tank are often enough (given that most of our tanks are closed to keep the humidity in) to raise the temps by at least 5 (and often more) degrees.

Ed

In that case, what is the recommended temp. gradient for darts?
(Although I frequent the forum, it will be a loong time before I get some dart frogs)

I've experienced scortching and burning of the stands with undertank heaters with built-in thermostats without an external control. They might work better with a metal mesh stand. Unless your room temperatures get lower than 60 degrees F at night however, I don't think they would be necessary. The water and substrate does a lot to mediate in-tank temperatures from rapid extremes between day and night. Lars (a Swedish research botanist who posts on frognet) has kept some auratus for many years in a tank that goes as low as 10 C (50 F) at night with no ill effects and only temporary inactivity at this low temeprature. I would personally be a little uncomfortable with this, especially with more delicate species, but have never tried it.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

I was just about to cite Lars on this (he is a ret salmon biologist by the way). With lowland species ideally the temps should be between 70 and 78 F with lows into the low 60s will allow normal activity. Lows into the 50s will cause inactivity of the frogs (but there are species such as the Phyllobates that appear to be sensitive to wide temperature swings).
Some of the montane species such as coleostethus spp are not available but I would expect them to have tolerances to lower temps.
Ed

Thanks so much everyone for your help.

So I suppose the submersible aquarium heater is a little superfluous? Or would including it actually be somehow detrimental to my set-up? It's a Visi-Therm Stealth, only 25 watts so it's not very powerful. I just thought it would help to maintain the humidity more than actually warm the air in the viv.

I'm also going to have a small water feature, most likely just a simple water wall to one side of the aquarium flowing into a very small pool lined with river stones cut into the false bottom. Will this alone maintain the humidity or should the water be warmed? If so, how warm? 76 F (24 C) sound okay?

About the substrate. I'm using eco-earth brand coconut fiber and fir-bark. Will plants do okay in this? It doesn't seem terribly nutritious to me. I was thinking about collecting some leaf litter to add to that. Would I be risking getting pests or even dangerous organisms that way?

Finally, once I have all the components for the substrate, with or without the leaf litter, do I just mix it together willy nilly or should it be layered in some fashion?

Thanks again for the help. If i don't get any answers to this I'll repost it in a new thread since this one has slid down the list a ways and it may not get noticed.