Reptile & Amphibian Forums

§ 12.104. Right to Search and Inspect

(a) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken.

(b) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may inspect a wildlife resource or a part or product of a wildlife resource that is discovered during a search under Subsection (a) of this section.

(c) In this section "wildlife resource" means an animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, or other aquatic life the taking or possession of which is regulated in any manner by this code.

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§ 62.007. Stopping for Search

(a) An authorized employee of the department may search the game bag, receptacle, automobile, or other vehicle if he has reason to believe that the bag, receptacle, automobile, or vehicle contains game unlawfully killed or taken.

(b) A person who refuses to allow a search or refuses to stop a vehicle when requested to do so by an authorized employee commits an offense.

Acts 1975, 64th Leg., p. 1405, ch. 545, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1975. Amended by Acts 1985, 69th Leg., ch. 267, art. 3, § 42, eff. Sept. 1, 1985.

One the bright side though, they define Reptiles as "Wildlife resource" and not a wild animal. Which gives us some ground on § 62.003. Hunting From Vehicles
§ 12.104

Refusal to allow a search is an offense? Offense of what? You can't say no? Are you required to give permission? I know you can't physically resit but you have to be able to say no, right? What about your right to remain silent? That doesn't constitute permission, does it?

California uses similar language in the Forest Adventure Pass. You must buy one to park in CA National Forests. I got a ticket when I didn't buy one and it turns out the only "offense" was against a voluntary program, not punishable by any means.

>> 12.104. Right to Search and Inspect
>>a) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken.

>> 62.007. Stopping for Search
>>a) An authorized employee of the department may search the game bag, receptacle, automobile, or other vehicle if he has reason to believe that the bag, receptacle, automobile, or vehicle contains game unlawfully killed or taken.

The subtle difference lies in the fact that one is a game regulation and the other is a non-game wildlife regulation.

>>b) A person who refuses to allow a search or refuses to stop a vehicle when requested to do so by an authorized employee commits an offense.

As for the search rule, a believe probable cause applies here as well. If they can show that they have probably cause (they saw you pick up a snake off the road, bag it, and put it in your car) they could argue that they have a legal right to search your vehicle.

So just let them search. It is easier, unless you have something to hide.
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Chris Harrison

Are you absolutely nuts, you never give up your to a search warrant if those stuppid a$$ #$^$%*%&&%(^%#&#!$& wont to search let them get a warrant.

Are you absolutely nuts you never give up your right to a search warrant you make those stupid a$$ #@%^#$&$^*%%&^*) get a warrant if they have probable cause

Okay Tank.....but as some of us are debating what you are saying, is it diff. for a out of stater ? How long could we be DETAINED for a search warrant and I was told several times that if indeed a law enforcement branch had to get that search warrant from a judge at after a certain hour of day/night it would heavly piss off someone. I know, I know that YOU would us rather fight this but common sense tells me that I'm a out of state person and when they ask me to permit to search and I ask if I can refuse and they say YES then they say ( example : 118 or 385 ) that a judge in Presideo has to issue the search warrant ......I mean how do I know that they won't try for something else like a driving citation ( this was somewhat leveled at me if I had refused permission to search but not in that exact content ). It also takes MONEY to fight and possibly TIME of showing at a hearing for a fight in a infraction ( in thier minds ). It COULD be a trumped up charge but........

well the last two stops that have been made on me, have detained me for about 1 hour for one by the border patrol & another time i was detained for about 2 hrs. I must say all well worth it, it never ceases to amaze me how people believe fighting for, or at least standing up for your rights is a inconvenience. i will tell you like i told troy, you can hide be hind me i will fight for your rights for you. If the damn jack a$$ judge is put out over having to get up to issue a warrant then they need to find a new line of work, thats there fu_ _ ing job the same job the tax payers have hired them to do. The thing to keep in mind if your doing nothing wrong & have nothing on you, the judge wont issue a warrant not to mention the officer is to lazy to go drive all that way to be turned down for a warrant, dont forget it takes probable cause to get a warrant. I realize the law allows for this search but the supreme court has dis allowed, you must contest these socialist practices in order for them to stop.

The federal supreme court has ruled in some cases in favor of the police, were the police had searched a vehicle for drugs. They agreed this was legal for safety purposes but once the officers opened personal belongings (dope bag?) that is illegal. the supreme court does not allow the search of personal belongings within the vehicle, they have also ruled in a motor home/camper search that this is illegal, due to this being an extension of a home.
I think if you keep a change of cloths & a pillow in your car & explain that your camping that little can be done your vehicle be comes an extension of your home.

maybe you can just walk along & hunt along the cuts while they go get a warrant that way you dont feel like its a total loss!!

It is not always easier to let them search. I consented to a search on 674 and even after finding nothing the officer, it was Border Patrol, continued to question me for about 45 minutes and it would have gone on if I hadn't demanded he let me go. A few days later on my way home in AZ I was stopped and questioned by BP. After about 10 min. I demanded he let me go and he did, it was much easier to just tell them no. I have also had my camper shell opened at the BP station north of Presidio without them even asking. Yes I am now predujudiced against these agencies anytime I am stopped. I say if you know you aren't doing anything wrong why let them waste your time and abuse their authority. They would like to be able to search anyone, anytime at their whim. Every time you give in they will try to get away with more and more.

I try to make a habit of traveling with a camcorder on hand. I would bet good money that a lot less time would be wasted if they knew you were recording their actions. They may or may not search your vehicle and see no reason not ask them to explain what probable cause they had to pull you over and search. It would also be a good idea to ask them what they were looking for (most of the time what they are looking for is not illegal in any way to posses, so why should they bother to look for it?). Once you tape their explanation of probable cause, then let them search, and once they are done ask them to let you go right then. As far as I know, unless you are charged with something they have no right to detain you on the side of the road for hours at time. And if they have already searched and found nothing to warrant an arrest or citation, then all their excuses have dried up.

The civil rights argument will not be won on the side of the road, but if we all make an effort to let them know that we will document their treatment of us, it may relax our situation next time.

I do not mind being pulled over, and I don’t care about being asked if they can search. But I do not like being pulled over and over and over again by the same individual and I do not appreciate it when they just waste my time.

Many law enforcement officers, particularly game wardens, take advantage of the average citizen's ignorance of the law, unwillingness to confront authority, and fears of reprisals if they don't acquiesce to demands. We have rights and we should exercise them. I will NEVER let anyone search my person or vehicle without making them get a warrant first. I make it a point not to break the law when I'm out herping. I don't shine cuts from a vehicle, I don't road cruise at slow, conspicuous speeds, I don't trespass on private property, and I don't herp on protected state or federal lands. In short, I give an officer no reason to think I've violated the law. If they want to search, I'll gladly wait however long it takes to get a warrant, and when they find nothing I will be happy to hire a lawyer who will help me file suit for harrassment and anything else I can think of. I carry a voice recorder and I record every "transaction" I have with law enforcement. I've thought about using a cam corder and maybe its time to get one. TPWD game wardens have recently stepped well over the boundaries with some local West Texas herpers and I think it's time we put a damper on their parade. Don't give an inch!!! Know your rights, cooperate when you have to, but make them follow the law!

"...every unjustifiable intrusion by the Government upon the privacy of the individual, whatever the means employed, must be deemed a violation of the Fourth Amendment."—Justice Brandeis (Olmstead v. US)

Supreme Court Justice Laura Visitacion-Lewis ruled in 1998 that the Court of Appeals has ''repeatedly emphasized the need to ensure that police not act arbitrarily or use unfettered discretion'' where the possibility exists that individual liberties will be trampled on in warrantless searches.