Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,
I am now starting to re-do my rack system before my snakes come out of hibernation.I had some issues where the heat tape caught fire and needless to say I am looking for an alternate heat source for my snakes. I have been reading a lot about a product called heat rope. I am assuming that its the same as heat tape just in a wire form. Either way everything I have heard is that it is safer to use than heat tape. Has anyone used this stuff before? Also how could I incorporate into my rack system? Any information would be very helpful. Thanks in advance.

This a link where I am thinking of ordering it from:

http://dansgardenshop.com/echeatcab.html

Josh

There are a few different heat ropes out on the market. Some are supposed to get noticably hotter than others. I have not used them but others here have commented they are very effective.

>>Also how could I incorporate into my rack system?

A few questions first?

1) What is your rack made of?

2) Are you able to take it apart and reassemble it?

3) If yes to #2, would you consider putting it back together with new spacing (to allow for some PVCX over the cable) or would you rather not?

4) What is your current heating for the rack? Heat tape under the boxes, behind the boxes, or what?
-----
Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

>>There are a few different heat ropes out on the market. Some are supposed to get noticably hotter than others. I have not used them but others here have commented they are very effective.

>>Also how could I incorporate into my rack system?

A few questions first?

1) What is your rack made of?

2) Are you able to take it apart and reassemble it?

3) If yes to #2, would you consider putting it back together with new spacing (to allow for some PVCX over the cable) or would you rather not?

4) What is your current heating for the rack? Heat tape under the boxes, behind the boxes, or what?

Chris,
1) What is your rack made of?
My rack is made of Melamine and the shelves are made of MDO.

2) Are you able to take it apart and reassemble it?
Unfortunalty when I biult it I went a little crazy and used
wood glue and screws. The screws come out no problem, but the shelves I think are there to stay becuase of the glue.

3) If yes to #2, would you consider putting it back together with new spacing (to allow for some PVCX over the cable) or would you rather not?
I am not sure what PVCX is? I think it is just sheets of PVC? Either way I would definitly consider doing that granted my heat rope would not melt it.

4) What is your current heating for the rack? Heat tape under the boxes, behind the boxes, or what?
Right now I have nothing...all of the heat tape burned very badly, but I was using it under the boxes. So if it possible I would want to use the heat rope under the boxes as well.

Thanks Chris for your help on this.

Josh

Josh,

Using heat rope under the boxes will be very difficult since you cannot take the rack apart. You would need to route or saw small grooves in each shelf and I don't see how you'd be able to do that in a normal rack with about 6" between each shelf.

I do not recommend you try to take this rack apart. Wood glue is amazing stuff. I had a rack that I threw together one night to quarantine some snakes. I was in a hurry and my drill battery was dead so I used regular wood glue and nails.

To make a long story short, that rack survived a 700 mile trip in the back of a UHaul, two years of use, and even a day underwater during a flood. The shelves were badly swollen from the flood and I still had to beat the rack apart with a hammer in order to throw it away.

I repeat, DO NOT try to take your rack apart. LOL. You may end up building a new one.

But I digress.

Is this rack in a cool room? If not you may be able to get away with back heat. But in this case I can't completely recommend heat cable as I'm not familiar with it in this application.

I'm currently heating my racks with rope light and it's working well. I have two runs behind my 25 gallon boxes and one run behind my standard sweater boxes. But my room is fairly warm and I'm using Reflectix insulation to maintain the heat. Not sure if such a setup would work for you or not.
-----
Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

"Josh,

Using heat rope under the boxes will be very difficult since you cannot take the rack apart. You would need to route or saw small grooves in each shelf and I don't see how you'd be able to do that in a normal rack with about 6" between each shelf.
I do not recommend you try to take this rack apart. Wood glue is amazing stuff. I had a rack that I threw together one night to quarantine some snakes. I was in a hurry and my drill battery was dead so I used regular wood glue and nails.
To make a long story short, that rack survived a 700 mile trip in the back of a UHaul, two years of use, and even a day underwater during a flood. The shelves were badly swollen from the flood and I still had to beat the rack apart with a hammer in order to throw it away.
I repeat, DO NOT try to take your rack apart. LOL. You may end up building a new one.
But I digress.
Is this rack in a cool room? If not you may be able to get away with back heat. But in this case I can't completely recommend heat cable as I'm not familiar with it in this application.
I'm currently heating my racks with rope light and it's working well. I have two runs behind my 25 gallon boxes and one run behind my standard sweater boxes. But my room is fairly warm and I'm using Reflectix insulation to maintain the heat. Not sure if such a setup would work for you or not."

Chris,
I am definitly going to take your advice and not try to rip apart the rack. Sounds like a big fat mess. As far as my snake room. It stays fairly warm. Around 75. So maybe putting the heat rope down the back of the rack might work? I don't know if I want to do that or not. My gut is telling me just to build a new rack...so I might do that. That way I can put a track in the shelves for the heat rope. Either way I look at it its going to be a hassle so I might as well start from scratch and biuld it up. Real quick what size tubs do you recommend for colubrids? Right now I am using tubs that are 3'x2'x8". They pretty big and cumbersome and I know that colubrids don't need tons of room. So if I rebiult my rack I could adjust to using smaller tubs. Thanks again Chris for recommendations.

Josh

Josh,

Keep the rack. If it were mine I'd drill some holes in the sides such that I could run two or three strands of rope light (the stuff you get at home depot) behind each box. The more loops the better but don't make the rope light take to tight of a turn as it will burn out some of the lights.

If it does not work you can always use it for Xmas decoration or decorative light in your room.

BTW, I know safety is a concern. Rope light is about as safe as it gets. I've seen it outside, wrapped around live trees, any sort of application that would be dangerous with exposed heat tape.

Does you rack have a back or is it open? If it's open you'll need to cover it with a foil-covered insulation.

The rope light comes in red or blue if you're worried about a 24 hour heat source. But I like to provide night-time temperature drops so I'd just use the white light variety. I hook mine up to a timer.

>>Real quick what size tubs do you recommend for colubrids? Right now I am using tubs that are 3'x2'x8".

What tub do you use that is that big? Brand, model?

What colubrids do you keep? Indigos are colubrids but I don't exactly recommend they go in a sweater box. LOL.

At any rate, I have always felt most colubrids are kept in too small of tubs. I have seen some very large cornsnakes, kingsnakes, and gopher/bullsnakes kept in 28 qt. rubbermaids but I just don't agree with it. For the typical California Kingsnake or Cornsnake they are fine, but the bigger stuff gets cramped.

Really it's your peace of mind that matters, but I'd keep the boxes/rack you have and make it work, especially since you have a 75* room.

-----
Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Josh,

Keep the rack. If it were mine I'd drill some holes in the sides such that I could run two or three strands of rope light (the stuff you get at home depot) behind each box. The more loops the better but don't make the rope light take to tight of a turn as it will burn out some of the lights.

If it does not work you can always use it for Xmas decoration or decorative light in your room.

BTW, I know safety is a concern. Rope light is about as safe as it gets. I've seen it outside, wrapped around live trees, any sort of application that would be dangerous with exposed heat tape.

Does you rack have a back or is it open? If it's open you'll need to cover it with a foil-covered insulation.

The rope light comes in red or blue if you're worried about a 24 hour heat source. But I like to provide night-time temperature drops so I'd just use the white light variety. I hook mine up to a timer.

>>Real quick what size tubs do you recommend for colubrids? Right now I am using tubs that are 3'x2'x8".

What tub do you use that is that big? Brand, model?

What colubrids do you keep? Indigos are colubrids but I don't exactly recommend they go in a sweater box. LOL.

At any rate, I have always felt most colubrids are kept in too small of tubs. I have seen some very large cornsnakes, kingsnakes, and gopher/bullsnakes kept in 28 qt. rubbermaids but I just don't agree with it. For the typical California Kingsnake or Cornsnake they are fine, but the bigger stuff gets cramped.

Really it's your peace of mind that matters, but I'd keep the boxes/rack you have and make it work, especially since you have a 75* room.

Chris,
I might try the light rope. I guess it heats up quite a bit at least enought to make a difference for the snakes? As far as the setup do have them on a dimmer or anything or just have them running full blast? The back of my rack does have peg board on it so I guess I would put something like insultation between the peg and the rack. As for the tubs. I got them at target and I want to say sterlite. But they are great they are just very big and hard to clean, but I do enjoy them cause it does give my snakes room to stretch out.
Also I guess it might have helped if I told you what kind of Colubrids. I have a 2.3 AZ. MTN King, 1.1 Mexican Blk. King, and a 1.1 L. Zonata Algama. And the collection seems to keep growing. Oh yeah and 1.1 Western Hognose.
So I think I will give it a try and make do with what I have. Thanks again chris.
Josh

I'm sure the rope light will heat up the back of the tubs enough for the snakes to benefit, especially the species you mentioned in a 75* room. It's a cheap experiment. You could also try the same thing with the heat cable and then use it on your new rack if this one does not work out.

You can use cable ties to attach it to the pegboard (on the inside of the rack). Then I highly recommend you find a place that sells Reflectix by the foot and LOOSELY wrap the back of the rack with it. Do not wrap it tight. I won't explain the physics, but you need an air space.

I run mine full blast but it can be dimmed or ran on a proportional Tstat. I do not suggest an on/off Tstat as the clicking on and of of the light may stress the snakes, even if it's the red light.

In your post below to Clint you mentioned that the heat tape had just under 1/4" air space. If that's the case and the boxes still have a gap above you might be able to come up with a way to run the heat rope underneath.

Do you boxes have raised feet or wheels by chance? That will also make it easier.

But to get to the point of my message, there might be reasons to consider building another rack.

First, for the species you keep a typical sideways rack that holds either 28 qt. or 12 qt. boxes is more than enough. And it will be easier to heat.

Second, if your current rack is not working very well. Perhaps the boxes have warped or never slid well in the rack from the start. Or if you made the gaps too tight.

Lastly, if the boxes are difficult to handle and clean I could see going ahead and starting over. Some of the larger boxes have all sorts or ridges and raised areas on the bottom which collect urates and are hard to clean.

Regardless, I don't blame you one bit for not using heat tape. Don't let anyone talk you into going back to it. Your peace of mind is most important.
-----
Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I'm sure the rope light will heat up the back of the tubs enough for the snakes to benefit, especially the species you mentioned in a 75* room. It's a cheap experiment. You could also try the same thing with the heat cable and then use it on your new rack if this one does not work out.
You can use cable ties to attach it to the pegboard (on the inside of the rack). Then I highly recommend you find a place that sells Reflectix by the foot and LOOSELY wrap the back of the rack with it. Do not wrap it tight. I won't explain the physics, but you need an air space.
I run mine full blast but it can be dimmed or ran on a proportional Tstat. I do not suggest an on/off Tstat as the clicking on and of of the light may stress the snakes, even if it's the red light.
In your post below to Clint you mentioned that the heat tape had just under 1/4" air space. If that's the case and the boxes still have a gap above you might be able to come up with a way to run the heat rope underneath.
Do you boxes have raised feet or wheels by chance? That will also make it easier.
But to get to the point of my message, there might be reasons to consider building another rack.
First, for the species you keep a typical sideways rack that holds either 28 qt. or 12 qt. boxes is more than enough. And it will be easier to heat.
Second, if your current rack is not working very well. Perhaps the boxes have warped or never slid well in the rack from the start. Or if you made the gaps too tight.
Lastly, if the boxes are difficult to handle and clean I could see going ahead and starting over. Some of the larger boxes have all sorts or ridges and raised areas on the bottom which collect urates and are hard to clean.
Regardless, I don't blame you one bit for not using heat tape. Don't let anyone talk you into going back to it. Your peace of mind is most important.

Chris,
Thanks for all these suggestions. They very helpful. I am going to follow your recomendation and experiment with the Light Ropes and see how that works out. I am thinking of just keeping the lights on a timer and having them click off night.

As far as the space underneath the tubs, I don't think I could slide heat rope under it. Unfortunalty I don't have spacers on the actaul tubs either. But I think I am going to give thelight thing a try and then if that doesn't cut it. Then its time for some construction. a couple questions; where do you buy your tubs at? Is there a certain brand you recomend over the other?

Thanks again for your help and also the reassurance not to go back to heat tape. I was starting to second guess myself because there is such a lack of heating sources for rack systems. I thought I would screwed. Thanks again.

Regards,
Josh

>>I am going to follow your recomendation and experiment with the Light Ropes and see how that works out.

Or look at it this way. If you end up builing another rack you know you'll be heating it with the heat rope, so perhaps go ahead and order that for your current rack. You can always use it if you trash this one.

>>a couple questions; where do you buy your tubs at? Is there a certain brand you recomend over the other?

I much prefer the Rubbermaid 28 qt. and 12 qt. boxes, especially for the smaller Triangulum ssp. you keep.

I find them to be a bit more sturdy and I also like that the 28 qt. and 12 qt. boxes are the same height.

Sterilite makes two versions each of their 28 qt. and 12 qt. boxes. One with raised feet, the other with a continuous rim around the bottom. I have found the one with individual raised feet to be less secure.

Unfortunately the 12 qt. in one of the types is just a hair shorter so there are minor security issues. A bigger deal with the species you keep.

Sterilite does make a 32 qt. and 13 qt. version that are very nice and sturdy but they are tall enough that you can only fit 6 levels in a 4' tall rack assuming you're using 3/4" thick shelves.

With the rubbermaids I can fit 7 levels in a 4' tall rack. A nice feature since lumber comes in 4' increments.

I buy my Rubbermaids at Menards. They were recently re-released so they should be available.

I build all my rack so that the 28 qts. slide in width-wise. That way two 12 qts. can fit in length-wise on the same level.

Here's a picture of a rack I built for $40. You can see that on some levels there are two smaller boxes.

In this picture I was only using the rack to store supplies and mealworms, no snakes.

-----
Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

One advantage of using the heat rope instead of the light for your current rack is that you'll be able to run more loops per level. With the rope light you probably won't be able to turn in tight enough to have more than two strands per level.

With the cable you could keep adding loops until each level was warm enough.

But I still think the rope light would work, especially if you can find the Reflectix.
-----
Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Chris,
You have been a great help. I think i am going to just biuld a new rack system all together. I like those 28 qt tubs. I think I might just do only those and then have a couple larger tubs for my Mexican Blk Kings. They get quite of bit bigger than the mtn kings I have. Also as far as the heat rope, I am definitly just going to purchase that over the lights. I was thinking the same thing as far as flexibility. The lights just wont bend like I need them too. I will keep you up to date on my progress. Do you have an email by chance? Mine is kinsey.josh@gmail.com. If you feel comfortable drop me a note because I might have a couple more questions to ask if you don't mind when I start up my new rack. Thanks again Chris.

Regards, Josh

>>"Josh,
>>
>>Using heat rope under the boxes will be very difficult since you cannot take the rack apart. You would need to route or saw small grooves in each shelf and I don't see how you'd be able to do that in a normal rack with about 6" between each shelf.
>>I do not recommend you try to take this rack apart. Wood glue is amazing stuff. I had a rack that I threw together one night to quarantine some snakes. I was in a hurry and my drill battery was dead so I used regular wood glue and nails.
>>To make a long story short, that rack survived a 700 mile trip in the back of a UHaul, two years of use, and even a day underwater during a flood. The shelves were badly swollen from the flood and I still had to beat the rack apart with a hammer in order to throw it away.
>>I repeat, DO NOT try to take your rack apart. LOL. You may end up building a new one.
>>But I digress.
>>Is this rack in a cool room? If not you may be able to get away with back heat. But in this case I can't completely recommend heat cable as I'm not familiar with it in this application.
>>I'm currently heating my racks with rope light and it's working well. I have two runs behind my 25 gallon boxes and one run behind my standard sweater boxes. But my room is fairly warm and I'm using Reflectix insulation to maintain the heat. Not sure if such a setup would work for you or not."
>>
>>Chris,
>>I am definitly going to take your advice and not try to rip apart the rack. Sounds like a big fat mess. As far as my snake room. It stays fairly warm. Around 75. So maybe putting the heat rope down the back of the rack might work? I don't know if I want to do that or not. My gut is telling me just to build a new rack...so I might do that. That way I can put a track in the shelves for the heat rope. Either way I look at it its going to be a hassle so I might as well start from scratch and biuld it up. Real quick what size tubs do you recommend for colubrids? Right now I am using tubs that are 3'x2'x8". They pretty big and cumbersome and I know that colubrids don't need tons of room. So if I rebiult my rack I could adjust to using smaller tubs. Thanks again Chris for recommendations.
>>
>>Josh
Josh, I'm curious as to why your h-tape failed? Did you use a t-stat? No air space allowed for the h-tape? Not that any of this is my business or anything, but h-tape is how i heat my rack. I did alot of research on this product and have taken all the precautions i could come up with. I would hate to have a fire or loose a snake/s due to an error on my part. Any input on what happened would be appreciated. Clint
-----
0.1 Colombian Boa-(Boa Constrictor Imperator) "Honey"
1.0 Hogg Isle Boa-(Boa Constrictor Imperator) "un-named"
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa-(Epicrates Cenchria) "Houdini"
0.1 Argentine Boa-(Boa Constrictor Occidentalis) "Lacie"
0.0.2 Green Tree Python-(Morelia Viridis)Biak type-"Smog" & Sorong type- "un-named"

>>Josh
Josh, I'm curious as to why your h-tape failed? Did you use a t-stat? No air space allowed for the h-tape? Not that any of this is my business or anything, but h-tape is how i heat my rack. I did alot of research on this product and have taken all the precautions i could come up with. I would hate to have a fire or loose a snake/s due to an error on my part. Any input on what happened would be appreciated. Clint

Hello Clint,

Well I really don't know why the H-Tape failed on me. I had it hooked up to 2 thermostats and there probably was little less that 1/4" of space underneath the tubs. I have heard of this happening before but never really thought it could happen. I had 9 different pieces of heat tape. 12" strips for each level and out of those 4 burned up and burned up my tubs also. luckily my snakes were OK they were just a little smoky. So what happen? I have know idea I just know that I don't really feel comfortable using it again. Don't mean to freak you out...

Josh

>>>>Josh
>>Josh, I'm curious as to why your h-tape failed? Did you use a t-stat? No air space allowed for the h-tape? Not that any of this is my business or anything, but h-tape is how i heat my rack. I did alot of research on this product and have taken all the precautions i could come up with. I would hate to have a fire or loose a snake/s due to an error on my part. Any input on what happened would be appreciated. Clint
>>
>>Hello Clint,
>>
>>Well I really don't know why the H-Tape failed on me. I had it hooked up to 2 thermostats and there probably was little less that 1/4" of space underneath the tubs. I have heard of this happening before but never really thought it could happen. I had 9 different pieces of heat tape. 12" strips for each level and out of those 4 burned up and burned up my tubs also. luckily my snakes were OK they were just a little smoky. So what happen? I have know idea I just know that I don't really feel comfortable using it again. Don't mean to freak you out...
>>
>>Josh
>>
No i'm not freaked out, but it is something to think about. I did alot of research on this. I even decided to use the tubs with feet on them. This way the tubs are never rubbing or resting directly on the h-tape. Even still i don't feel a 100% safe using the stuff. Keep us posted on how you like the heat cable. Clint
-----
0.1 Colombian Boa-(Boa Constrictor Imperator) "Honey"
1.0 Hogg Isle Boa-(Boa Constrictor Imperator) "un-named"
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa-(Epicrates Cenchria) "Houdini"
0.1 Argentine Boa-(Boa Constrictor Occidentalis) "Lacie"
0.0.2 Green Tree Python-(Morelia Viridis)Biak type-"Smog" & Sorong type- "un-named"

Well good luck with your heat tape and I will definitly keep you up to date on the heating cable. I just hope I can get it to work.
Josh