Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Since the attack on the persons at the chimp facility, they have contacted Arnold S. and asked him to ban exotic pet ownership in CA. TIME TO STAND UP FOLKS BEFORE WE GET BULLDOZED. Exotic animals covers ALOT of ground, and PETA has alot of $. The battle line is about to be drawn and if we dont stand up and get counted we will lose. Its too bad for the person attacked but giving a chimp a birthday cake is not a bright idea IMO. Its a wild animal, period.
Mark my words people, we are keepers on borrowed time. We must start to organize, herp societys help but they are not enough, if we want to continue to work witht he animals we choose to work with we will have to fight for that right.

The most ridiculous thing is that ONE incident can happen and gain attention and cause laws to be made. During the time that has passed since that story broke many, many, times as many people were mangled/killed in car accidents. Exotic animals kill very few people but instead of making things safer that are truly dangerous (try getting a car manufacturer to put in something that might cost 10 bucks extra and save ten thousand lives) politicians choose an easy target to gain recognition. As far as the specific case goes with the chimps, I don't really consider them "wild animals" in the sense your speaking of; were talking about an animal so intelligent it can sit down and play you in checkers, I'm sure there must be a wide range of dispositions among chimps just as there is among people. When dealing with an animal that intelligent I don't think you can keep them as a "pet" and lock them in cages, if I was locked in a cage for my entire life I would probably go crazy too. Also the chimp that they raised was not the chimp that attacked them.

Well, the couple that brought the birthday cake for the one chimp had actually bought it as an orphaned baby thirty odd years ago (the chimp is 39 yrs. now) and raised it, so I find that part understandable. The two attacking chimps "Mysteriously" escaped from a neighboring cage. I also find it odd that a tiger just "mysteriously" escaped from some unknown place in California last week and had to be shot and killed. With PETA's past history of payroling eco-terrorists etc., I wouldn't put it past them to have staged these escapes for the media sensationalism in order to re-enforce their proposed ban. Sensationalism always wins. You could put any States legislators in a room and accurately say that their children and grandchildren will be responsible for more human deaths and injuries in the next 20 years than will all the combined venoumous snakes and other exotic animals in tht State. But all the injuries and deaths caused by the progeny of the legislators combined wouldn't receive one tenth of the media coverage that one snakebite death would receive.

Granted chimps are EXTREMELY intelligent (and one reason why I would not care to work with them!)but giving a chimp a B-day cake is alittle much. Especially since the chimp in question was taken there because it BIT off a womens finger.
Considering the latest research on chimps shows some individuals to be brutal thugs, documented predators on humans, and basically a shorter, hairier clone of ourselves. I question peoples sanity when they bring the animal a birthday cake.

I have worked with chimps in a setting wherein their habitat was a small island with shelters & things to climb on. I have seen chimps pick up & throw rocks that most men could not lift off the ground. They are several times stronger than a man. An unarmed man cannot defend himself from a chimp. There are two ways to work with chimps in a setting like this. The first is the keeper joins the colony. This works after a fashion, but the keeper will get his butt kicked now & then. Sometimes severely. The second method is to go on the island armed. I carried a simple spring-loaded sap. It was seldom used, but it was decent protection.

~~Greg~~

Wasn't it Jane Goodall that joined a troop, only to be killed by them later?
In any case, I'm no primate expert.
What's to be done about PETA? Do you think Arnold will snap under there pressure or is this another failed attempt?
To be honest, with all the $ PETA has I can't actually think of an actual law that they were responsible for that really ruins my life. Or any law for that matter.
Besides all the disgusting noise that they make, what has PETA actually accomplished?

Besides all the disgusting noise that they make, what has PETA actually accomplished?

They have been pretty successful at keeping public attention aimed at themselves while groups like the API and HSUS work within the framework of the legal system mostly unnoticed by the general public. Those groups have been successfull at getting laws passed.

Whether it's PETA, or one of its puppets accomplishing the legal banning of keeping certain animals is irrelevant. The banning is the effect and WE are the ones who lose.

Doug T

To the best of my knowledge, Jane Goodall is still alive. I can't recall her name, but the woman whose life story was the film "Gorillas in the Mist" was killed..not by gorillas, but by gorilla poachers.

~~Greg~~

I'm disappointed in some of the responses regarding Peta. I enjpy reading this board, mostly because most everybody here here is much more knowelable than I regarding snakes, but also because I got the impressiom most everybody here actually cares about the well being of snakes, and not just in there collection.
I know Peta is extreme, but what organization isn't. If the NRA had there way everyone would be equiped with enough fire arms to destroy 99% percent of the the world. I have issues with Peta going after Zoo's, Aquariums, and otherpeople or groups interest who have or keep animals. Seems to me that both have a common denominator, that is the well being and continued existance of endangered animals. Cetainly I would like to see peta pick and choise there battles more wisely.
But, it seems to me that there intentions and motives are much more pure than a lot of other organizations. At least they care, and they certainly derive the same materialistic benefit that the NRA or the Porn industry derives.
If they don't try to help save species who will? Seems to me most of ther egrievances have to do with people and/or companies exploiting animals for profit. If that is the case, seems to me that Peta has bette overall intentions, much less materialistic.
I don't support them, I'm not a member, but when push comes to shove, I would rather see an orginazation will little to gain except for the well being of animals, than to allow the annialation and destruction of species purely for monetary or selfish gains.

Peta is not about intellegent animal legislation. Their agenda is to completely eliminate the pet trade, Zoos and the killing of animals for food or other uses. They are by No means benificial as most of the animals PETA would want to "protect" would be extinct except for their commercial value.

Keep in mind that if we didn't eat cattle and chickens and ride horses, they would likely be as rare as the Buffalo.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

So that is there agenda, I apologize if I am wrong. Don't know much about there mission statement, but I was always under the impression that they care for animals well being and were some what of a policing organization, protecting animals from extreme abuse and neglect, as a result, I would rather see them than have them disappear.
Reread my post about Peta picking and choosing battles. I eat meat and chicken, and as long as I remember, human beings have been always been carnivorous.
My main point is, I would rather see groups or organizations, that generally care for the well being and protection of animals, than groups or organizations that pretend to care, but really have a different agenda. Which is certainly the case for a lot of other Non-Profit organizations.

Yes, they do say they are "for the welfare of animals", but they came to a local high school just a couple weeks ago passing out cards explaining how the students were basically evil little monsters for eating chicken. If they want to be vegetarians, that's fine by me but they are going a little too far when they do things like that and spray paint fur coats and leather jackets. I'm not a big fan of the fur trade either, but as far as leather jackets go, it's a by product of the meat industry that happens to be worth a bit of money-meaning a slightly higher percentage of the animal gets used when it is killed instead of throwing away the skin.

I'm not trying to jump down your throat here, but I must take issue with your characterizations that the NRA wishes to "give everyone a firearm"....Not true. The main mission of the NRA is to secure and preserve the 2nd Amendment. If you've done any research at all, you'd see that there are numerous workshops sponsored by the NRA every year that stress safe and responsible gun ownership. Their goal isn't to hand out lethal weapons to anyone that wants one....their goal is to ensure that those that are responsible and safe maintain the RIGHT to own guns.

Now, I'm not niave enough to ignore the fact that the NRA is a political group. As such, there are many different areas of it trying to accomplish many different things. However, to characterize their overall mission as "guns for everyone!" shows that you've done little research on the topic, and are basing your conclusions largely upon what you've heard instead of what you've researched.

Please, in the future before you claim to perpetuate a particular groups' mission statements and objectives, at least do a little research on your own so that you may back up your claims with something other than "media rhetoric"...thanks.

As far as PETA goes, if you follow their activites and read their mission statement, it's pretty clear what they're all about...it ISN'T humane treatment of animals.

-AzAtrox

This will be my last post, I'm really not trying to fan the board. I, in fact take great pleasure in reading posts. I really don't know much about PETA, and I don't claim to. My NRA point is that I truly don't believe they care about admendment rights as you say, nor gun safety. They also lobby and oppose fingerprint identifcation on guns. Safer, stricter gun control means less members, less clout and als less money and power. Nor do I believe the porn industry true motives are our right to free speech and cencorship. Anybody, group, or affilation can claim there motives are pure but when push comes to shove. Oh well that is the American way!

The true face of PETA is much more disturbing than what they want you to think. They support terrorist groups such as ALF and ELF. All you need to do is a quick search to see some of the things they done. PETA is not about the peaceful protection of animals but the violent liberation of animals they consider mistreated. Many members of PETA are Vegan by choice because they consider the eating of other animals as murder which its not. They try to convince everyone that a totally vegan diet is a better health choice and that humans were never meant to eat meat. If we weren't meant to eat meat.. we wouldn't... and we wouldn't be able to digest it properly. But thats neither here nor there. PETA supports domestic terrorism widely.. especially Eco-Terrorism and have been responsible indirectly for many bombings, arsons and attacks on various establishments. A short search will net you a wealth of information on their more illegal activities.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
3.5.3 Leopard geckos (2.0 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 0.1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short), 1.0 Rainwater Albino (Mycah), 0.4 Poss. Het. Albino (Annika, Lace, Rain and Aris) and 2.1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice, Malfeas, and Mystic))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
3 cats (Ashe, Sahara and Hercules)
6 Fish (4 Red Danios, 1 Cardinal Fish, and 1 Tiger Barb)
8 Ramshorn snails
"And a Partridge in a Pear Tree!"

My intention wasn't to flame you or scare you away. You are free to believe whatever you so choose. However, if you do a bit of independent research on the issue you will find that the NRA is a VERY big proponent of gun safety and responsible ownership. The NRA sponsored quite a few gun workshops every year, and one of the main objectives of these is to stress safe and responsible gun ownership. Yes, they are a political body and as such they are dependent upon dollars to make them run...No dispute there...However, the reason the NRA exists is to secure our (US citizens') rights to bear arms. Perhaps if you did some research, you might find that to be so.

If you're gonna post on this board, be prepared for healthy debate. As a forum vet of 6 years I can tell you that if you don't come with a hide as thick as an alligator, your feelings will likely be hurt. My intention isn't to insult you in any way...only to stess that before you (or anyone else) makes claims that they haven't researched, they might want to think twice...we have some pretty sharp pencils in the room and I speak from personal experience when I say that they won't hesitate to call you on the carpet if you make baseless and arbitrary characterizations about things you haven't researched.

Have a great day!

-AzAtrox

"Safer, stricter gun control"? By definition, the only people that will follow gun control laws (or any laws for that matter) are law abiding citizens. Stricter gun control laws accomplish nothing except further encroachment upon the Constitution. Stricter gun control laws won't matter to the hood that holds up a liquor store, or to the other hoods that carjack people...Chances are, the firearms they use are already illegal to begin with (i.e. serial number filed off and/or used in a prior crime)...No, stricter laws (about anything) don't mean diddly to these fellas...They have already demonstrated that...

Wanna stop kids from getting ahold of guns? Then be a RESPONSIBLE parent, EDUCATE your children about guns and their lethal potential. Teach them what to do if a friend shows up with a gun (i.e. leave and tell an adult). If you shelter your children from the knowledge that they are out there and what they can do, then it becomes no big surprise when/if they find one and think it's a toy. If they haven't been taught, then they don't know any better.

Snakes and guns are kinda similar in that respect....Education is key when dealing with ANYTHING (snakes, guns, household bleach, etc.) that can kill you.

Ok, I'm done ranting....I think I'm gonna go pop off a few rounds...

-With a pocketful of shells,
-AzAtrox

Your interest in animal protection groups is acknowledgeable. From the responses, it is clear that PETA isn't exactly the one to admire. I'm sure a quick search, or some forum members could reveal some more just conservation groups.

Great, here we go again. Playing politics on a reptile forum. why must you liberals always awaken the beast. i know to you sir the the right to bear arms is really, "dangerous and alarming". But please ,taking shots at the NRA on a snake forum. don't you have some other site you could go wine too. to quote the words of Michael Savage, "you are the enemy within".

Not ALL liberals are against the NRA, I'm definately a liberal and for the most part I agree with the NRA. On a couple of occassions they may have gone a little to far (I'm not sure how true this is but I had heard they were against banning plastic guns that can get past metal dectectors) but I agree with the right to bear arms. I do think their should be a quick basic safety test (one that can be done in 15 mins or so) for no fee, which after passing grants a permit to own guns, just to prevent some of the accidents that occur.

Greg:

Her name is Dian Fossey.

Al
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The more people I meet...the better I like my venomous snakes.

Al: You are right. So is Arizona Atrox. PETA, HSUS & a few other like groups will not rest until the only pets are dogs, cats, & canaries, then they will go after them. The NRA certainly is not in the business of arming people, just securing the right to do so if desired.

~~Greg~~

i fell as though itb is time for those old enogh to start are own NRA in the right to own exotic pets. a single herp group focused on fighting back for are right to own herps. are constitution states "the right pursue happiness" and I fell herps make us happy and with responsibility do not infringe others rights

ahh, your right. Both of there books were a good read.

Greg, speaking of chimp strength...
Ever seen the movie LINK? Cheesy b movie about chimps, but there is one part where the researcher talks about somebody who moved his "pet" chimps to an island of their own and when he visited the island the chimp killed him because it was over-excited with its greeting-wondering if that's true or just more crap from the movie(I've looked up a few things from junk movies and as far as some of the "odd" facts go the ones I've researched seem to be 50/50 between true and garbage.
Just curious

screw those peta jerks who infringe my right to pursue happiness and call me a murderer,I tell them your next and offer them a burger. they tried throwin paint at my dads jacket that guy was ten seconds away from a 3legged race to the hospital with my dads foot up his a$$. I think its seriously time for us to do something about peta its time to push back for are rights to own herps