Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Never put a ruby-throated hummer in with Jackson's.
I researched hummingbirds and found they can be "kept". I put a beautiful male in with my Jackson's colony. I was installing the drip hose at the top and heard the frantic twittering. I caught sight of the bird as it was quickly bunjeed into the second-largest green females mouth. She chewed on the poor things head for about a full minute, then dropped it. It took a few more minutes more for my jaw to close.
I felt terrible, but at the same time it was fascenating. Do they eat smaller hummers in the wild?? Mabe thats where they get all the calcium that bugs apparently do not provide. Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmmm.

Sweet man. I put my veiled outside and it ate an anole. some people give their big chams pinkies. I know that veileds eat birds, but i didnt know about jacksons eating birds. Thats pretty cool. Did he aet the whole bird?

Anthony

Sorry, but I don't think that's "cool" at all...I don't think the purpose of his post was to tell us how awesome it was to watch a cham attempt to eat a pretty little hummingbird and then be unsuccessful, ending up with just a dead bird and frustrated cham. If you read his post thoroughly you would have seen that the cham dropped the bird probably because it was just too big.

To the original poster, too bad your experiment went awry...glad your cham didn't choke in the process...sad for the bird. I do understand that the purpose of your post was to inquire as to whether or not this naturally occurs in the wild.

Sorry, just my .02

Kristen

That is a good way to get your animal infected with worms and other parasites and pathogens.

sounds like she bit off more than she could chew---I would have to suspect that keying on movement to feed is common instinct with chams in general,size dictating mabe run instead!!!! Baby birds in nests moving ,especaly, would be pry items.
Trina,I think maybe 'cool' and 'fascinated' were used in the same context here.Regardless,its natures way,not right or wrong,and we can't change that.

Just in case anyone wants to do this again (hint hint). Trapping and holding ANY native (not including starlings or English sparrows...they are exotic) bird for any reason without a permit is illegal. Hummingbirds are species of special concern in many areas so please do not add to your local population's problems by trying to keep them in a greenhouse. Their diet is quite demanding and the common hummer nectars won't cut it. I know this was not your intent, but if you are interested in keeping hummers in future you'll need to find captive bred species, not the natives. This time of year you might have orphaned a clutch of nestlings. Let's hope not!

I agree with Carlton, any native species, not just of bird but snakes and frogs etc, should NOT be kept. I can see if you want to take a frog and put it in a 10 gallon aquarium for a few days just for learning purposes that is ok, but let it go where you found it. If you want to do your environment a favour, kill some free roaming cats.

Chameleons will basically eat anything that moves, including other chams of equal or lesser size; or at least they will try to. They will eat small rodents, birds, small snakes, lizards, any bug they can find, as well as munching on the odd plants. So they would most likely get their calcium from the bones etc of these smaller animals. It's a good idea to feed your chameleon a pinky mouse once a month, it'll do their body good.

-Brock

I don't believe that's true for all states, you'd need to check for each particular location. However, I agree that's it's not a very proper thing to do.

Am I certain that it is illegal to keep native birds? Absolutely! Authority to capture, collect, trap, cage, or keep native N American birds or any parts of birds (including feathers folks) is only issued by USFWS permit under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. Even shooting blackbirds for agricultural control must be authorized under a USFWS permit. Granted, such take activity is routinely given, but the point is that any capture or taking of natives must be for a valid and justifiable reason. The Lacey Act further regulates the sale or shipment of native wildlife across state lines.

Point well taken. It was however a male and the only parental responsibility they exhibit is the short courtship and copulation. No orphaned babies, thank god. Furthermore there are much greater numbers of ruby-throateds than there ever have been because of human intervention, i.e. feeders. I also have a quite thourough knowlege of their physical and mental needs, thanks to those nerdy Germans. It is however a very bad idea to try and keep one, take my word for it!! Especially now I understand they are illegal to keep, OOOPS.

Oh I totally agree about nature's way...I may not want to see it, but it's the way it is. I wasn't really referring to the original post as much as I was responding to the first reply...I just found that it sounded immature...as if it was "cool" to see which little tweety birds you can put in with your cham to see if it can eat them.

I actually thought it was nice that at least Alan felt bad about what happened, yet he found it interesting that the cham would go for such large prey. It didn't sound like he was talking about how cool it was to watch a little hummer get killed, yet not eaten, by the cham.

Beating a dead horse, but I just wanted to clarify.
Kristen

Jesus, i didnt know my post was gonna get flamed like that. I really do think that is cool. Im not sadistic, but i think that most people have never heard a jacksons, being so small and calm would eat a hummingbird. And I am allowed to have an opinion arent I? Chill, its almost the thing that happened at the mantids forums. This guy posted pics of a mantis eating (ironically)a hummingbird. It is truly amazing to see an insect eat a "higher" lifeform, just as it is to see a chameleon eat a higher life form (well, acording to most people, not me!) Sorry if I hurt anyone, Im especially sorry to you Kristen.

Best wishes,

Anthony

I agree that it is interesting that a Jax would go for a hummingbird...it's also interesting that it wasn't able to eat it. Maybe I interpreted your post wrong...the "sweet man" and stuff just sounded like a pat on the back/high five type of thing...like, "cool dude, it killed it...let's do it again"...maybe I got the wrong impression. I'm cracking myself up writing this since I'm picturing Bud and Doyle from the movie "Bio-Dome" saying something to that effect (not you Anthony...LOL).

No harm, no foul...no biggie. Didn't mean to flame you so much as to point out that poor Alanvines really did feel bad about what happened, it seems...it didn't sound like he did it to see what would happen, but instead it was done for a totally different reason and that was just the unhappy ending.

Kristen

Well, I have to say, me and my brother (DJXMASTERCHIEF) are the same. Although we wont party and destroy the bio-dome. Indeed i do find that interesting. I bet chameleons digest every feather and bone that goes trough their systems. Almost all reptiles are very efficient eaters, and in allmost all their meals not a drop of blood is wasted. Indeed very intersting if you are like me!

Best wishes,

Anthony

I love this forum!!!! By the way, she really seemed to chew on the head with purpose, it seemed she was getting the juices, honestly. I think she knew she couldnt eat all of it, I think she knew what she was doing. The event is seered ino my brain and I remimber every detail like in slow motion, LOL. SHE IS A CRUEL MONSTER POSSESSED BY A DEMON., LOL.
I had a fischer's kill a greensnake once, but he just chomped the cranium and imediately droped it, like trying to dispose of it, he certainly acted as if he knew what he wanted to do and did it. i think chams have better vision and depth perception than we do, cant imagine them not acurately judging the size of something.
by the way, I have various anoles, two sub-adult phelsuma and various small frogs in the greenhouse as well and the chams watch the geckos and anoles but have never looked interested in catching them. Mabe the hummer just annoyed the red female, she is [bleep]y anyway, lol
I would also like to add that neither the hummer nor the greensnake were intended as cham food. Its like the Discovery channel.

Long term Parsoni and oustaleti keepers report that their chams have eaten hummers. Many large cham species eat small birds or even nestlings. Melleri have been offered zebra finch nestlings too. They typically showed no interest unless it was put in a fake "nest" in their tree. I'm surprised a jax would attempt a bird, but you never know. FYI, there is a very active forum on keeping softbilled birds (including hummers, bee eaters and sunbirds) on yahoo groups.

>>Long term Parsoni and oustaleti keepers report that their chams have eaten hummers. Many large cham species eat small birds or even nestlings. Melleri have been offered zebra finch nestlings too. They typically showed no interest unless it was put in a fake "nest" in their tree. I'm surprised a jax would attempt a bird, but you never know. FYI, there is a very active forum on keeping softbilled birds (including hummers, bee eaters and sunbirds) on yahoo groups.

Carlton is correct on this one. I have heard reports of C. parsonii in particular eating hummingbirds. The interesting part of the reports i've heard is that the birds were digested, bill and all, without injury to the chameleon. Many keepers of these large species offer the occational finch to their animals and i have seen video and photographs of some of these species, namely C. melleri catching small birds and eating them. I too am suprised that a C. jacksonii would make any effort to eat a bird. Interesting report. Thanks for posting it!
Chris
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Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/
Chameleons Online E-zine - http://www.chameleonnews.com/

Does anyone else have any problems with these type of feedings? I just dont like the idea of feeding anything larger than a butterfly to my chams. I know its nature, but I just couldnt see myself giving my chams anoles and humming birds, especially since ive had both for pets at one point or another. Just thought i'd post that and see if anyone else felt the same, or see if im just a wuss =)

>>Does anyone else have any problems with these type of feedings? I just dont like the idea of feeding anything larger than a butterfly to my chams. I know its nature, but I just couldnt see myself giving my chams anoles and humming birds, especially since ive had both for pets at one point or another. Just thought i'd post that and see if anyone else felt the same, or see if im just a wuss =)

As you said, "its nature." I am of the belief that life for these animals in captivity should be as close to real life, while not putting them in vulnerable situation, as possible as their keepers. If one takes it upon themselves to keep chameleons of this size that may need this type of pray for proper nutrition, they should be aware that this type of feeding might be necessary. While it may not be a nice end to the finch/anole, it is no different than the need for mice for pet snakes. Many keepers also breed finches for the occational food to large chameleons, much like mice are raised for snake food. I consider it to be more wrong to have these animals and not provide for them as fully as possible. I would have a problem with someone having these animals and yet not give them a complete diet as them may require.
As far as disputing the need for such food items, you would need to conduct nutritional, reproductive and other analysis of wild and cative animals both with and without these types of food to be totally sure. Without this data however, I would tend to stick to nature before presuming that I could do it better. Just my 2 cents.
Chris
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Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/
Chameleons Online E-zine - http://www.chameleonnews.com/

How could you feel like a wuss expressing your sincere feelings?? I would never get a large python if I were you though, lol(with you not at you)

OMG, thank you very very much, I had no idea about such a site. WOW

And, a site that is generated and supported by many of the same forum members is www.softbills.com. You can see links to care, breeders, aviaries, bird dealers etc. They have one of the best photo galleries I've ever seen on literally hundreds of bird species. I keep softbilled birds and have used these sites for years. I don't live in a climate where outdoor aviaries are possible, so have 1-2 spoiled birds indoors.

I am already broke due to my reptile sickness (as my friends call it) I don't need a bird sickness too. I already have an African grey parrot and that should be enough bird for anyone.
Hmmmmmmm...
but I am curious,
lets see.
www.