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as i was getting mice for him to eat i saw that my rough neck was laying down on the ground and a part of his tail was sticking up it looks like it was bbroke in 2 peices it is at the end like the last 3 inches. i gave him a bath 2 days ago to get some skin off what could be going on

temps are fine he is w/c it looks like old skin

thanks for you help

Happens all the time, it probably got caught on somthing in your cage and snaped. I have a croc monitor this happend to last week about 3 inches, its still attached but most likely it will fall off. Once in a while they heal, but not often. I leave them alone unless its just dangling. If it looks like it still getting blood to the broken off part, you can tape it up. Ive had monitors with the whole tail snaped off from who knows what during importation. Ive just clean it, tape the nub up and they heal themselves.

yea it looks like it will fall off but when ever i touch it he wips me im like what u doing and he just come over AND CLIMBS ON MY HAND it is so weird so just leave it

thanks for you help

i was just looking at it and saw that near the base of his tail he has a like a chunch nicked out of his tail the skin is folding up but under neath that it looks like it is healing anything to worry about

broken tail, chucks missing out of his tail at the base. Anything sharp in you encosure?

If not it could be humidity or maybe hes dehydrated, things can get infected under the skin/scales somtimes and it appears to be from getting hurt by somthing. Look really close at all the tiny scales on his tail and see if they look good, if they look like they are pealing up or small cracks in between them the lizard is dehydrated most likely. If he is really bad dehydrated it will look like the scales are seperating and skin is then and can see through it like and the scales look like they are rising away from the skin. The tail can tell you alot even though it is thick at the base doesnt always tell if hes hydrated well. This is my opinion only, im not a Vet. Others have their own opinions.

you are talking about things and going in two different directions. You are also asking us to determine something we cannot see.

Make it easy on yourself and your monitor, GO SEE A VET, he or she can actually see the animal and the tail.

how is the humidity in the enclosure?

Monitors do not throw their tails, nor do they break easily. In all the years and hundreds and hundreds of monitors(many species, include crocs) I have had, I have not seen one simply break its tail. Let me assure you, I get tail whipped on a daily basis and so do the walls logs, litebulbs, etc. But never a broken tail.

On the otherhand, in the first few years while I was learning, I discovered tail death is directly related to stress.

It occurred with both physical stress(improper conditions) And mental stress. Mental stress is not getting along with cagemates, not having proper hiding areas, improper exposure to people, etc.

Now please do not come back and say, your monitor, this and that, I am only reporting the most common and most likely cause.

For me, Vets did not help. Of course they would amputate the tail, etc. But it would simply reoccur, that is until I addressed what the cause was. Then in most cases(all cases for me) they healed all on their own. Thanks and I hope this may be of help. FR

You have had hundreds of Monitors and none broke the tip of the tail off, sorry that is impossible.

Well its very common, if a monitor swipes his tail and the last few inches hit a corner of somthing it will most definatly break off no matter how healthy it is, it flesh like anything else. Ive had tree limbs that were to close toghther and formed wedges that monitors tails got caught in and when they jump down it breaks, they dont break off like a twigs, i should have been more clear, they bend break. I too have never had them snap off, they are broke none the less. I had a 7 foot croc monitor 3 months ago somhow get his head caught between a shelf basking spot and againt the back side of an enclosure, it ripped 2 half inch deep cuts when he was twisting to get out (my fault really for allowing a small area between the self and wall, never dreamed it was large enough to get the monitor caught in because of his size). My old Giant salvators didnt even need to hit a corner swinging their tails, they could hit the wall and SPLAT!, they would bleed all over and somtimes damage their tip. Toes get damaged too somtimes if they get caught on things, claw tails get torn too just from digging and clawing, thats why importers like when they see full grown imports with all their toes and tail because many large ones arrive with small flaws.

I believe cage construction and materials used to furnish them go hand in hand with husbandry.

Sounds to me like everything you mentioned causing tail loss was husbandry related.

Not only have I had lots of monitors, but still have lots now, and no, none have broken their tails. Of course, some have but chewed off by various creatures.

If I were you, I could consider what I said. Losing tails is based on stress. The tail tip, dies first then fall off.

If you hang around here for a little while, you will hear stories of monitors tails turning black, then falling off. This will be blamed on all sorts of things from, It must have hit it on something, OR it must have been too dry and the stuck shed made the tail fall off, etc, etc.

IF you continue to follow the stories of these monitors. Well, that normally doesn't happen, as they normally die and the owners do not come back.

Back to the point, no sir, I have never seen a monitor wack its tail and have it fall off. Not in captivity or in nature, and yes I have seen lots and lots in nature.

The concern here is you, why do you question me, and not question yourself. You do understand, your the one with the problem, not me, I only offer help. If you do not want the help, then great. But I am telling you the truth. FR

Im sure you have tons of experience with monitor and your suggestions are from your experience. I too have a lot of experience as importing monitors since 1989, thousands of them, no breeding though, but im going to get into it when i get the time. I can usualy tell whats going on with a monitor by looking at it, feeling its weight and hardness/hollowness etc. I have witnessed hundreds of broken tips from bashing corners or walls. As you deal with long terms probably, i delt with fresh imports, it may have a lot to do with it because nearly all imports come in somewhat dehydrated. My business was keeping a thousand monitors alive and get the unhealthey ones kick-started. Just sounded odd that you never witnessed a tip break.

So if my experience is correct or anywhere near correct, then it suggests that imported monitors are mildly to highly stressed. Hmmmmmmmm I think we all could have guessed that.

So indeed the shoe fits. Please consider, the majority of mine are hatched here and rasied here.

By the way, breeding has nothing to do with this conversation other then its only the product of a healthy pair. Thanks FR

Hollowness is what i was thinking too! Maybe you're a lowballing importer of reptiles. Who really gives a flying f what you think?

Do you really think the monitor you have that was imported came in perfect and healthy, they dont drink at all for 3-10 days minimum. Are you really stupid enough to think a indonesian making 2 bucks a salvator feeds it at all or the supplier or the exporter?

I know you would like to think the world is peachy and pink and peta inspects the exporters from indonesia and the importer personaly goes out and inspects every 1 dollar gecko and 5cent housee gecko before it's shipped. We rely on only the "FEW" exporters that are aproved to handle animals to inspect them before they are shipped.

If they have internal parasites under those conditions, some get "hollow" feeling. and smartass, yes your monitor was imported with parasites dehydrated as well, or it's parents were and the importer probably nursed it back to health for you. people who want to keep their monitors alive DO care. People who import monitors have a bit of experience to add because they see a lot of sick animals and do their best to get them healthy, they see the monitors before you, you shoud remember that before you say stupid things you have no idea about.

FR, i agree with everything you have ever reccomended and i know you have a lot of experience (except killing of sick monitors because the petstore was probably abusing them. i agree with you about the stress and dehydration making the tail brittle

I mentioned the breeding because im setting up a 100 croc monitor breeding facility so i can provide enthusiasts cb crocs. I hope i will learn a lot more about monitors, especialy my favorite monitor the croc. I know it did not have anything to do with the topic, it was a casual mention is all because im excited about the project. I am thinking of providing detailed pictures of monitor sicknesses i dealt with with images and remedy i use to cure them from my experience and post them on the forum (that too is off topic). Perception is different between people and describing an illness cannot be as accurate as compared to an image and symptom. I think it would benifit a lot of animals and give people more of an insite if their monitor gets ill.

a 100 croc monitor breeding facility. Hmmmmmmmm my advice would be, forget it.

Please explain how that would work as I do not have any idea how it would. Even if you bred every female successfully. Actually the more successful you are, the worse it would be.

Without having to go into all the details why it would not work, its about this simple. The cost to keep 100 croc monitors healthy, which is required for reproduction, is greater then the possible income.

If you were successful, and had 50 females, they would produce around 450 offspring. This is only for one year. How many do you think you can sell at what price? Producing that many would saturate the market in a few months and you could not even give them away.

My suggestion would be, do not even think about that, first get one pair to reproduce successfully, learn what it takes to continuilly repeat that. Once you learn that, you would totally agree with me. Its a lose lose lose lose situation. Unless you can sell their hides and meat, (a market that does not saturate) Good luck FR

I have 12 crocs now, i am informed by the exporters that crocs may be excluded next year from obtaining cites permits. I know , they have been saying this for years, but it seems more serious now as im told. If they do what i expect they will in the next few years be difficult to obtain. Im in the USA, very few true cb crocs here, some ch but those will no longer be obtainable if they ban the animal from getting cites. I used to be into salvators and breeding them, i had 10 females, only 1-2 would ever produced any fertile eggs. It would be impossible for me to think more then 10 out of 50 females would actualy lay fertile eggs, so 450 offspring would never happen (in my oppinion). If i can learn the art of reproduction like perhaps you have with crocs, maybe only 10 females would be possible if 80% would drop fertile eggs.

I don't think you understand the whole process.

First if you are poor at breeding monitors, then you will not be able to support 100 croc monitors. Once you learn how to breed monitors(all species) not only do all females breed, but they also multiclutch. Croc monitors do indeed multiclutch.

It really does not matter if they can be imported or not. There is no viable market for croc monitors, not one that will support medium to large scale breeding.

Please understand, this applies to almost all species of monitor. There is a small scale market, that is, if you produce a clutch or two of many species. But once you produce lots, then the price drops to reflect import prices. People who want cheap monitors do not care about the species, they can always purchase, Savs and niles, for prices you cannot efford to feed one monitor for.

In my opinion until all imports are restricted or banned, there will not be a market that supports a large scale attempt. And surely 100 croc monitors is large scale. The cost of properly housing and feeding that many is not cheap. Remember, if you do not do it properly, then you will have nothing to sell. If your doing it for fun and have a sugar daddy to support this, then great and have lots of fun.

Again consider, if you have a small percentage of success, then your methods are not good. They are indeed designed to successfully breed. In my experience, they are the easist reptile to recieve eggs from. Cheers FR

Perhaps you 2 are right, if i was even half as succesful at breeding as i expected, it would be hard to move those numbers. I sold about 5-10 per month, 80 max per year as it was. I think ill max at 20 and see how it goes for another year. You also changed my mind, crocs should be rather more expensive, they are more exotic and dangerous in my opinion then most and if they were cheap like a savanahh or even a couple hundred bucks a kid could buy one and get a bit more hurt. See the forum works for stubborn individuals too!

Yea, thats why I stopped breeding them, as they became less expensive, kids and kidlike adults would get them and that has lots of liability.

But unfortunately, I am only a little smart, I still breed Lacies, which are smaller and less dangerous, but by only by a few degrees. hahahahahahahahahahaha I never claimed to be all that smart.

The key to Croc monitor success is space, and space becomes expensive in the states. FR

Having a ton of imports come in and keeping them healthy to breed are two way different things. It is much easier to be the importer monitors are tough and will turn around and appear healthy after a short time with minimal care. By this I mean most of the time it is just giving them hide spots leaving them alone and offering water.

I used to import so I know all about the process and condition they come in. I cannot recall ever getting in an under fed monitor, but I do recall getting in alot of dehydrated monitors.

Fixing them and selling them is usually a quick turn around, after all if it was not then the importers would lose money.

Raising them breeding them, and most importantly keeping them and not turning around selling them is what takes all of the profit away. Like Frank said you will lose and lose alot. I would not recomend having 100 crocs unless you plan to butcher alot of them. Even with the small numbers being captive produced now the market is not there for them. Atleast not a constant market of good homes. It is easy to find a home for them but add a high price and it gets less, add the fact not everyone is ready for a croc monitor well even less.

Just so you know I do own croc monitors and I do enjoy them. I just do not agree wih your way of thinking.

Hey, I've imported several monitors from Indonesia, and all I have had ate the day they came in. None came in dehydrated or skinny either, so it really depends who is on the other end of the deal. All my Salvadori ate the second they were offered food. My pair of Salvators ate the same day also.

I would ask you this though, with 12 Salvadori in your posession, please post a couple pics of the enclosures for them. I would love to see how you set that many Salvadori up properly as I would think it would be very hard.

And with 100 Salvadori. Even if you had 50 males and 50 females, if the need came to seperate, which it will, you would need probably 100 enclosures total to accomidate. 100 Salvadori enclosures that housed full grown adults properly would take up an unbelievably huge amount of space, electricity and food. I couldn't even begin to comprehend what that would take. You might want to think about that again.

-Jeff

Please dont misunderstand what i said, not every monitor comes in in bad condition. if i brought in say 100 niles, 100 savanahs etc. 5-10 would be bad off. Most eat and drink right away, i didnt import 10 monitors, my suppliers wouldnt even take orders that small. I have a barn, 2200 sqft/ 2 story, all drywall and ready for my projects, it can house them. To house 100 crocs does take 100 enclosures, each monitor does not get one enclosure, i pare them up to make sure they dont hurt eachother, i keep 4 in one 8x8x6 enclosure wood and screen and 2 at my office in a smaller enclosure. Ive posted pics before of one setup in my office, ill get some pics and scan them of the 8 footers. Im not all setup to house 100 crocs,it a project i was considering.

That 2200 sqft will get used up fast for 100 crocs. Not to mention you need room, to walk, raise up cages for babies, incubator, etc..

Even if you think you pair them up well enough to not hurt each other, there will be times your proven wrong. So it is best to have a backup for most of us thats empty cages ready incase anyone needs to be seperated.

I hope the 4 crocs you keep in the 8x8x6 and the 2 in the smaller cage at your office are not to big.

My work partner took some photos of the office cage with a digital, its a bit larger then 6x4 maybe, dont know exact measurements but closecrocs at my office because i see them mating all the time, but she doesnt ever lay eggs or hasnt yet. The cage evolves all the time, it now has shelves and other things in it, pictures old. The office cage is a bit small now and im thinking of linking 2 of them toghther, i cant have them to big in the office, these enclosures are heavey and cannot be much bigger or they cannot be removed like the barn ones. They play like little kids and are always playing with their food toghether, there just my favorites i dont know why,there just unusualy attached to eachother.

Some gravid female that layed some infertile eggs about a couple months ago, also a pic of a sick BR in the barn, hes in my humid room and he came in thin a few years back so i was monitoring him and taking a picture to show how well he was doing to a friend that wanted him. Im not planning on importing anymore and havent in a while, i intend to maybe import maybe once more for personal stuff then im out of it. I will try to find some pictures i can scan of the inside of the barn and cages.

Damn, how to add more then one pic?

.

male

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I agree with JP's first post and a vet visit is warranted. From whatever the cause, treatment is best done by a professional. Yes, I don't doubt that others have done okay with tape and all, but those may have been minor problems, where only going by your description, your tail seems rather mangled. Why have a monitor suffering through the self healing process of a broken tail when it can be dealt with properly? Of course I'm not knocking those experienced keepers, as I'm sure if something was severe in there opinion they would take the animal to the vet as well.

With a vet visit encouraged, I do agree with the above posts that the initial cause of such an injury needs to be addressed. Whether it is husbandry or stress, address it. In addition to stress, which of course dampens any immune/healing response, it also allows parasites to become an increasing burdon. External parasites can weaken the area, but so can blood bourne parasites that may lodge in the small tail vessels and decrease blood supply. (Dr.Mader Reptiles magazine). I doubt that this is your monitor's problem however, since you mentioned the wound at the base of the tail as well.