Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have an ad in the classifieds looking for adult female balls. I got a response last week from a guy that had a huge female. We settled on a price and worked out the shipping details. We agreed that I would not pay for the snake before he shipped. He asked if I would at least pay for shipping. I thought that was a fair enough deal. So he shipped yesterday into today. The snake arrived this morning. I immediately opened the box to check out this huge female. As soon as I opened the box I knew something wasn't right. The box was a little small for the snake but that's not a really big deal. The problem was that the shipper put 5 heat packs in with the snake!! So obviously she was dead. I opened the bag she was in and pulled her out. She had burns up and down her belly. The first thing I did was take about 6 pictures of the dead snake to cover myself. Then I took a digital thermometer and put that inside of the box that the snake arrived in. The temp was over 124 degrees!! I took several pictures of the box and the temp as documentation. After taking pictures and such I sent an email to the shipper telling him of the bad news.
This is where I would like all of your opinions. The guy selling the snake is requesting that I pay for half of the total cost of the snake. He says because he never guaranteed live arrival that I am responsible for the cost of the snake. But he would give me a break and only charge me half of the total.
First off I feel horrible for that the snake had to die that way! My opinion is that it's not my responsibility to pay him for his very sad mistake. 5 heat packs on a day where it is almost 70 degress outside is way to much. 5 heat packs on a cold day is way to much.
All of your opinions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Taylor James

That stinks. 5 heat packs is, IMHO, way too many and if it's that cold out, the shipper should reconsider shipping at a better time. Shipping is his or her responsibility. The live guarantee (or lack of) should only apply (if at all) to things outside of the shipper's control, such as a lost package. Improper shipping should not be your fault or responsibility. That being said, I would not pay another dime.

I have had a few packages shipped that were less than desirable. I'm starting to talk to some shippers (just a few of them) first now to guage their shipping knowledge. There are quite a few people out there that do not know how to properly ship animals. And that's a shame because there's a forum on shipping.

The real loser here is the animal.
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Jay A. Martin

Wow - That really truly sucks. Is there ever a need for more than two heat packs? Wow and he expects you to pay for his mistake. Just a bad deal all the way around. Are you sure the snake was even alive when he stuck it in the box? In no way are you responsible for paying for a dead snake that was so poorly shipped. If it were me, I would be demanding a refund on the shipping fee to boot. Be sure to put it on the BOI in case this happens to others.
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Tosha

8.10.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and currently un-named)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
7.9.5 Fish (1,2,3,4...)
0.0.1 Frog rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.2 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

Thanks for your input! I like to trust the guy and think that the snake was alive before he shipped but who know's? I am thinking about the refund for shipping. At first I didn't even consider asking for my money back on the shipping. But since he is asking me to pay for the snake my attitude is changing.

Thanks again,
Taylor

I wouldn't pay a dime. A typical agreement is for the purchase of a LIVE animal. If the animal is not received live, the agreement is void. No payments are required.

In my opinion...a guarantee of live arrival is implied with EVERY purchase unless specifically stated otherwise.

Chris
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My favorite Ball Python morphs: Albino, Piebald, Ivory, Pearl, and Blue-Eyed Leucistic

There are 2 sides to every story. Did he guarantee live arrival? I know it snowed today in pottstown where you live. What was the rush on the delivery how come it couldnt wait until it got warm albeight it was warm yesterday and the past weekend. These terms should of been agreed upon before sending the snake such as if it dies who pays who. Also 5 heat packs escpecially in a small box is overkill. I am in the same situation I have to ship some snakes to cali where it is warm and it is still cold in the east coast. If I put 2 heat packs it might be a little too warm in Cali but if I only put 1 it might be too cold in the east coast. So I am just going to wait till it gets warmer like in April. Hope everythings works out for both parties.

.
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Jay A. Martin

Taylor i would not pay any more for the snake. If anything he should have waited for better weather. But 5 heat packs is way to many do not give him a dime. Pastel male is doing great give me a call sometime. Mike.

Thanks Mike and to everyone else. I really appreciate your opinions with this matter. Again the real looser in this situation was the snake.

Thanks, Taylor

np

This guy has a real pair on him, give him nothing. Even though he didnt guarantee live arrival doenst mean that you should pay for it, his screw up so he has to pay for it....What kind of banana puts 5 heat packs in a small box?????

Mike Brooks
TNS Reptiles
Long Island, NY
631-732-4233

As a shipper (not pythons and boas, but live snakes), I feel I am supposed to be the "expert" (as much as anyone can be in that difficult field) and it is my job not only to pack properly and check temps at all stops, but to inform the customer (who should not be expected to be an expert on shipping) of any reason that the shipment should be delayed (usually weather). Any screw up by myself or even the carrier is my problem to resolve - the customer did not buy a dead animal. The only things I hold the customer responsible for is if they supply the wrong address or are not there to sign for the package when they said they would be.

If any shipper isn't willing to take on these responsibilities, they should be very upfront in warning the potential customer so that customer can take his business elsewhere. If the shipper did warn you that he would not guarantee live arrival, you should have been very suspicious as to why.

I hope you paid the shipping by credit card so you can reverse the charges. Be sure to take this to the BOI so others won't get the same treatment.

Good luck!

Was that the guy was willing to ship before you even paid him. I guess maybe someone selling a pet (or a dead snake) would ship before payment, but I have never heard of someone in the business shipping snakes before they are paid in full. I know I never would. Unless its between friends.

I have to agree with you Jeff, but as a buyer I've paid in advance and been ripped off! My husband simply says don't pay till you have the snake, lol, I know of no breeder that works that way was my answer. The best thing to do is pay by credit card, you can always reverse the charges if there is a problem like the one above.
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Nita Hamilton
4.13 Normal BP's, 1.0 Het Orange Ghost BP, 1.0 Het Pied 1.0 50% poss Het Orange Ghost BP's

Nope, I would not give the guy a dime. He implied that he was selling you a live animal, which he did not. I would eat the shipping costs and mail it back to him. That was really lousy for him to do, shipping it that way anyway. In the future, make sure you only buy from people who have a written, live-delivery guarantee!!
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2.1 Ball pythons
2.1 newly rescued ball pythons *new*
1.0 Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1 albino Cranwell's horned frog
1.0 bearded dragon
1.0 Tiger salamander
1.1 breeding Clawed frogs
1.0 black kittycat
3.1 Oscar cichlids
0.1 Paint horse mare

Get your money back from that POS for the shipping costs as well. Good luck.

Will

Let's face it, "live arrival" is implicit. Nobody, I mean nobody orders a dead ball python. What a lame and pathetic excuse to give in order to get you to pay for his mistake. It's idiotic that he doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions. I wouldn't pay him a penny. Nope. Not one cent.

Taylor,

I don't think you should be responsible for paying for the snake or the shipping. The seller obviously has no idea how to properly ship a reptile and you shouldn't have to pay for his/her ignorance. It doesn't take too much common sense for someone to realize that 5 heat packs is WAY too much. Good luck.

Garrick

I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone!! I really appreciate it. He will not get another penny from me!

Taylor James

I feel the seller should REFUND the Shipping charges YOU paid to have the snake shipped. If he screwed up then You don't have to pay, I personally would NOT pay for a dead snake unless it was MY fault. But if you gat the package on time and took it directly in the house and opened it and the snake was dead then...no pay for the snake, But if you let the box outside for whatever reason and then a few hours later found the snake dead then that would be a different story. I hate heat packs, They are dangerous and cause many deaths in reptile shipments. I always lean towards less heat than more, Because you can bring a snake back from being to cold but a snake that gets over 99 is usually dead. Who was the seller? Thanks David
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1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)
1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
0.1 Spider(04)(RDR)
3.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
0.1 Yellow belly(unproven)(04)
1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
25 Normal adult females
60 04 females
15 normal mixed 03's
20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's