Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Now that I have your attention this is a female wild caught that was found on the main land just north of the Keys in Florida about a year and a half ago. At least that is what I was told. When I got her she acted very much like a wild caught and was built like a wild caught so I don't doubt that she was. However I didn't catch her so her locale is unconfirmed. The person who brought her in to the shop where I bought her also brought in some Rosy rats at the same time so the "north of the Keys" seems accurate as well. Likely off the Keys really. Anyway she has a lot of red tones in her color so I don't think she is a anery.I am looking for some other opions on what she might be. She maybe showing something closer to the Honduran "anery" (hypoerethristic sp) Your thoughts are welcome.
Thanks Jason

Another look. These are from last summer but I can't get any better pics right now. She is about four feet long now.
Thanks Jason

Belly markings? I'm guessing obsoleta X guttatus. Yellow rat X corn.

Whatever it is, it's a beauty. I'm guessing it will have corn snake belly markings that are faded and reduced in quantity.
South Mountain Reptiles

By the elongated stripes on the neck and coloring.....
Brian

>>Belly markings? I'm guessing obsoleta X guttatus. Yellow rat X corn.
>>
>>Whatever it is, it's a beauty. I'm guessing it will have corn snake belly markings that are faded and reduced in quantity.
>>South Mountain Reptiles
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

MILKS
0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake "Cable" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade "Omega Red" (KY locale)
Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Her belly looks like this. And you are going to tell me that I don't have a money maker. Oh well she still rules. What should I breed her to a corn or a Hypo Glades. Tell me your opinion.
Thanks Jason

Man you are freaken right on the mark. You have any pics of simular animals??
Thanks Jason

I'll hook up my external drive tonight and see if I thought to archive some belly shots. Like Hotshot said, that neucal stripe is fairly common in hybrids of yellow rats and besides the colors is the first hint of yellow rat you notice.

The belly shots you just showed us suggest what I theorized. Naturally, until we get DNA testing nailed down on this sort of thing, we may never know.

I'll see if I can find some belly shots of some here.
South Mountain Reptiles

What is your opion on what to breed her too. My options are Snow corn , amel corn, hypo glades
Thanks Jason

It's going to be dangerous to dilute that back to corn. Most of the progeny are going to be corn snake patterned, but the colors will be skewed away from normal corn colors to the extent someone will think they have a pure corn that's bazaarly different in color. That's dangerous. I recommend you head for the other corner. Yellow rat, gray rat, black rat if you're going to breed it. While I do like many of the so-called 'hybrids' out there, there is growing recklessness in the industry. People selling snakes as pure this' or thats and not mentioning that they're hybrids or intergrades. If you stay as extremely far from confusion as possible, you will be away with making hybrids. If they resemble known species, the trouble begins.
South Mountain Reptiles

I hear what you are saying and I also think that if I go with a Glades then if it is a Hybrid/cross than alot of the babies should be very glades like or at least they should look like yellows. If they don't then there might be something else going on. Even though it isn't likely.
Thanks for your input
Jason

looks more like grey cross than a yellow cross?......

IF it is a cross

..try grey rat and see what happens..........

I tried to mix species and even sub-species and they would NOT go for it.they wanted their own kind....

yes.even pueblan milks and sinaloans and mexicans....would not cross.........

yellow rat ,everglades and blacks and albino blacks would mix with no problems......

corns would NOT mix with any obsoleta sub-species here either........

..try the grey,.a good one.,reduced pattern and light colored........If they run from each other too much and really don't like ach other......who knows.maybe too much corn in it..........

corn.start with the standard amel and see what the F2 's are like.?.........

have fun.................
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I don't know if you saw the details of what I know of its origins but it is supposedly from S. Miami Fl. No grays there unless they escaped. I understand that on the Keys there is a higher rat of mixing between the reds and yellows but this is just what I have heard and I have nothing to back this up with as far as Data. I have her with some corns right now but i may switch to the glades soon. I already own the Glades and thecorns and i have no interest in getting grays again. They are to hungry for me as babies.
Thanks Jason

What you have there is a perhaps a Deckerts rat snake which is an upper keys variant of the yellow rat snake. It is bred in captivity by some breeders but I do not know who? In any case, there is a picture of one exactly like your on Dick Bartlett's Book on Florida Snakes. I would attempt to get another like it and breed it.

Dan

I am interested in which book it is that you are talking about. Dick has a bunch of things he has written. Do you have the title so I could look it up?
Thanks Jason

It called Florida Snakes, a guide to their identification and habits published by University Press of Florida. I would also get with some of the big name rat breeders and they may shed some information on the snake.

Dan

Thanks For the book info. Somehow I don't have that one but I guess its time to add on more to the collection. I have talked to some guys in person and now Don above. I am kinda going with what was said by Don since I have gotten simular responses in the past and Don is one of the biggest out there when it comes to corns. I m not giving up and if I could get a simular animal like you said than I would but I don't think it is gonna happen.
Thanks again
Jason

Dick is away herping for the next week and when he returns I will ask him to review the picture. I do not think it is an integrade as it came from a well known area of that deckerts rat snake. I am suspecious because of the belly markings that it might be an intergrade but really do not know? In any case, Dick might shed some light on the subject and know who is breeding them.

Dan

Yeah he has got the rough life doesn't he. LOL Please ask him it would be great.
Thanks Jason

OK, yea, I thought about it last night and there are a zillion place where the yellow and corn overlap and I never heard of finding anything like that snake. Since it came from south miami, it has to be a deckerts rat snake which perhaps is an established intergrade, hence, there may have been some intergrades that started their own population? That snake glissens like a rosey rat snake from the keys but has a head and body like a yellow. Either case, its an interesting established animal. And a yellow will breed with just about anything. Once my friend found a yellow rat male in the middle of a road trying to breed with a ran-over dead florida water snake. True.

Dan

Too funny I would pay to see that. The best I have ever seen was a garter prying a DOR toad out of the dirt road and eating it even though it was dried up. It got mad at me for watching and took his dinner into the bushes in a huff. It was very funny.
Thanks Jason