Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey , how are you doing? You both gave me solid advice the last time i posted about Crotolus Atrox , i have another problem with the same atrox, she hasnt had a bowel movement in the last 3or4 feedings tried soaking in warm warter but it hasnt helped she is about 4 years old never had any problems i have had her for 3 years, husbandry has been the same temp 85 day time, feeding mice and i use paper towels for substrate, keep warter in the cage for 3 or 4 days a week. Help Please. atrox182

sorry i cant help u with the constipation but u should have water in the enclosure AT ALL TIMES.not just a few days a week please change that quickly.

thanks for the imput, i was concerned about the humidity issue. atrox182

Hi:

I would be better if I was at a hotel with broadband and not dial up...LOL I was out herping in Central Florida today and just saw lizards..no snakes...lots of fire ants.

Here's my thoughts on your constipated friend. It's sort of the off season...when was her last shed? Some animals will defecate before or after shedding. How many weeks since her last bowel movment?

Are you comfortable tubing her (as a last resort)? palpating the lower abdomen can stimulate a bowel movement and also tell you if there is a blockage. This leads to the next question...Any chance she bred or gravid?

Remember...don't panic...

Al
-----
The more people I meet...the better I like my venomous snakes.

Phobos, hope you had some luck herping in florida, my atrox shed last about 3 months ago, its been 4 to 6 weeks since her last bowel movement i tubed her today and could find no hard mass, she was breed in 03 gave birth last august, is there a chance that she retained sperm from the last copulation? she looks like she could be gravid. atrox182

Hi:

I would not worry for now. If you have her on the cool side, time to start to warm her up and get her feeding. I think she will have a BM when she sheds next. It is not unheard of femailes retaining sperm and being gravid a second year. Keep us posted, just an email away.

Al
-----
The more people I meet...the better I like my venomous snakes.

Thanks for the advice.ill keep you posted on how she is doing. atrox182

You need to go "herping" in North Florida....just in the past two weeks on our property: Water Moccasin, coral snake, water banded, indigo, 2 canebrake rattlesnakes(one was very pink), black racer.....and by the way, we just acquired a smallvisitor in the form of a two foot florida gator!!!

D

We did today...3 of us and did not see anything but a few skinks...

Al
-----
The more people I meet...the better I like my venomous snakes.

Sorry I can't be of much help. I'm not big on Crotes and don't have a ton of experience with them. I do definitely agree with one of the other posters though, keep water available at all times! Desert-ish animals or not, in capvitity, give them access to water always. If she is impacted, that could explain it. If she retained sperm and is gravid, that would be very interesting. Keep us updated about what happens.
-Chance
-----
Chance Duncan
1.1 Olive Pythons
1.1 Woma Pythons
1.1 Ball Pythons (Het Albino)
http://www.rivervalleysnakes.com

Glad to see you tubed & palpated her. That was a good suggestion. I lost a fine adamanteus many years ago because a rat's femur got turned vertical & blocked him up.

~~Greg~~

Thanks for the imput. atrox182

Hi, i was concerned about the humidity factor with keeping warter in the cage at all times, using Vision cages. she seems to be fine outwardly,maby iam beeing a little to concerned, possible that she is gravid. thanks for the advice will keep you posted. atrox182

Hey man...don't worry about the water...not going to hurt her...

Fran:

Can you send me the link for the PB-8 stuff, so I can check it out...Never heard of it before.

Thanks,

Al
-----
The more people I meet...the better I like my venomous snakes.

You wouldn't want to keep water available for Crotalus cerastes would you? I have heard of many people losing these animals when water is left in the cage. Even in small amounts. I have heard of more snake thriving without any water period. From people who have kept both I have seen water with the atrox and none with the cerastes. I would just like to see some opinions on that. Sorry to sway the topic but I thought it related well.

No problem..

I don't give/supply my Cerastes with water at all. I do note that they are well hydrated for the most part because of the water content in the feces is very high. Desert animals would not waste water in thier feces unless they were very wet, so to speak. The Atrox on the other hand live in areas, although very hot & dry is not match for the Sahara for dryness. Water is somewhat abundant during the year except for March to July in the range for the Atrox. It would be interesting to hear from Jim Harrison how they keep their Atrox for venom collection.

Cheers!

Al
-----
The more people I meet...the better I like my venomous snakes.

I was referring to Crotalus cerastes. Cerastes cerastes I would think is without a doubt as dry as there is, but what have people experienced with sidewinder rattle snakes. I have seen more people keep them without water or offering small amounts every few weeks with success. I know one Crotalus cerastes keeper who now gives no water and the snakes are thriving after having snakes die when water is available. So from what I have seen and read, more success has come from not offering water and it seems to be best. But I would like to see some more opinions on that.

I have kept both atrox and cerastes. What many people don't realize is that in the middle of the day, C. cerastes DOES indeed take refuge in rodent burrows, holes, etc. Especially here in Az in the summer time you will not find them out and about, except at night and in the early morning. The humidity underground is quite a bit higher than at the surface.

While they are certainly an "arid" species, I have found that misting them down occasionally (as well as their hidespots) works well. The remainder of their water they get from their food. However, I have NOT had success in keeping C. cerastes in a completely xeric environment. I also find that PVC pipe works well as their "burrow". These are just tips that have worked for me with C. cerastes, so hopefully they might prove helpful to others when working with this interesting little snake.

As far as atrox, as long as the enclosure has adequate ventilation, I have had no adverse effects when they are kept with a water bowl in their enclosure at all times. Basically, I've had success when I've kept them in a warm cage, a hidespot, a water bowl and a healthy supply of rodents.

I would consider C. cerastes a "specialty" species and C. atrox a "generalist" species. All things considered, I've found C. atrox a much easier captive in terms of husbandry requirements.

-Rally 'round tha family,

-AzAtrox

Whoooaa!! Major "Brain Fart" on my part. I guess mentally when I saw "C. cerastes" I though Desert Horned Viper not "Sidewinder"

Guess I pick a bad day to stop "sniffing" glue! :-P

Al
-----
The more people I meet...the better I like my venomous snakes.

Phobos, got up this morning and checked on my atrox , guess what i found, she had taken the biggest crap that i have ever seen, idont know what helped her, was it that i raised the temp to the high 80s, that i palpitated her for 2 days, kept warter in the cage for about 7 days straight, dont know but iam sure glad she did, if you find anything about this PB8 stuff let me know. Thank You for all the help. atrox182

http://www.nutritionnow.com/PB8.htm

http://www.nextag.com/buyer/outpdir.jsp?nxtg=3ea389_C71E8C0A8593B51C&search=pb8

There are dozens of places to get it just type PB8 and search for it on the web.

http://nutribac.com/ is for reptiles but PB8 also works.

The stuff works miracles on non feeding snakes. However well it works try to determine why your snake has not pooped to prevent it in the future. Might just be a season thing so no big deal.

HI Phobos, from the research that i have done atrox are prone to respitory infections if keept in to high humidity, can anyone give imput on this ? atrox182

A water dish doesn't necessarily equate to high humidity. Use a digital hygrometer to measure humidity and alter ventilation to change this, not the availability of water.

Chance, got up this morning and checked my atrox, guess what she had the biggest bowel movement that i have ever seen, dont know what triggered it, raising the temp, papilating her for 2 days, or warter in the cage, or the warm soaking , but iam sure glad she did. Thank You for your imput.atrox182

Try PB-8, beneficial bacteria/flora stuff. Insert a capsule in a rodent and feed it to your snake and stand far back for the biggest poop you ever saw to follow the next day or so. Also, inject some water into the rodent as she will need the extra fluids. PB-8 will also make just about any non feeding snake eat. You can get it at a health food store or look it up on the internet and order it. You snakes perhaps looks gravid because it is backed up with gas and poop. And some snakes consider their enclosure their burmation spot and simply do not feel at ease to poop there. Maybe put her is a different tub or container for a while.

Dan

Thanks for the imput ill check the PB8 out at my local health food store, if anyone has any imput on PB8 please keep me informed.atrox182

What exactly is PB8 and how does it work?