Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,
I have a Juvi in a 40 gallon tank. I have a 150 Watt bulb on the warm side that brings his basking site up to 123 degrees. But his hammock reaaches 140! Should i get a lower watt bulb, or just move his hammock to the cool side? He seems to go up there alot. Is 120 for his basking site ok? I used to have a heat pad underneath, but that made the ground too hot. By the way, I just got one of those ESU digital thermometers.

Thanks for any advice,
Mitch

Way too hot; refer to a good Care Sheet.

That may explain why he's been tempermental. I put a 100W bulb in and that keeps the basking site at 112 and the hammack at 115. Sounds better, right? I'm glad I got that digital thermometer otherwise I would have never caught this!

Thanks,
Mitch

Keep the 100W bulb, you really dont want it gettign any hotter than 115. Especially for a little guy, and since you seem to have a pretty good size tank, you dont have to worry about ur littel guy gettign fried, if it's still too hot for him, he'll simply move to where he's comfortable.
-----
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons
_____
www.funnymanreptiles.com

I keep my juvies around 110. Really nice set up.
Take care,
Karen

Thanks!

Thanks for all the advice as well.

-Mitch

Hi Mitch,

Proper temperatures have nothing to do with care sheets. They have to do with your animal(s) and the needs of the animal at any given time. Generally speaking I like to offer hot spot temps of 115-120 for babies and young dragons and temps of 120-140 for larger dragons. They will use these respective temps as they see fit. They will also use cool temperatures as well which are equally important to have available.

Here is a picture of a juvenile/adult dragon sitting directly under her basking light. The temp. at the hottest spot under the light (which is a very small point mind you) is 132.5 F at the time I measured it. The thermocline is very steep as you move away from that point. She will also sit at different distances from the hottest spot as well as under the log in the picture.

I feel it is best to offer the animals a wide range of temps and let them choose. If someone tells me the hot spot must be no hotter than 110 and I have lots of dragons that I see using temperatures much higher on a daily basis, well then I will have to believe the dragons and not the person/care sheet. If you have a hot spot topping out at 105 or 110 then that is all they will use as you have not offered any other options. I think the problem is that dragons don't read care sheets or listen to people.

Similarly, if your cool end is 85 then that is all they can use too. If you can offer cooler I think you will see that they will use it at times.

Just another perspective.

Good luck,

Ian

I couldnt agree more the dragon will let you know when he is too hot. Just make sure that the cool side is there too so he can escape the heat if he wants to. Good Luck

Do they sell 125W bulbs by any chance?

Thanks for all the advice,
Mitch

Yes, they do. Also The Attitude that 105 degrees is good so 140 degrees must be better is questionable. Go to some care sheets, read some books and talk to a good rep vet. Form your own opinion, but base it on information and fact.

I have seen reptiles that sat under a too hot spot and get very badly burned from it. The heat receptors on their backs don't seem to register the pain till it is too late. Just like some of them burn themselves on hot rocks. They lay on a spot that is too hot till they get burned. Probably in their wild enviornment they would not come across these kinds of temps normally so when they are presented with them in a man made enviornment they use them because they don't know any better.
Cats will lick up antifreeze if you let them because it smells sweet but it can kill them or make them sick. Animals don't always know best what to do in our man made enviornments so be careful with those temps. I would not go over 120 with any age beardie but that is just my opinion and I am not an expert.

They do sell 125 watt bulbs and higher even. Just understand it has everything to do with the efficiency with which you heat your cage. For instance, screen top = very low efficiency or it takes a lot more wattage to do the same job (the heat goes up and out immediately). The cages I have for my adults are pvc with glass fronts (no open top). They are 4'x2'x18" or something like that and I heat each cage with a single 50 watt halogen flood. And it is almost too much, that is to say it is hard to get the cool end as cool as I would like. Just something to think about.

Also, just to contribute to the conversation, it is not about any one temp. being better than another. My point is that I feel it is important to give the animals the choice, to give them options and then let them decide. At times they will use temps from 70 or lower up to 140 and everywhere in between in my cages. They might even use temps outside this range if given the chance. I have seen this because I give them the choice. If I have temps only between 80 and 110 then I would never have the chance to witness them using any other temps and of course they would never have the option to use any other temps.

You might also think about, in regards to another post on this subject, what range of temps do you think beardies have available to them in the wild - through all the seasons? Say in the dead of summer, in their native habitats, how hot do you think surface temps get then?

In my experience, burns are not a problem using the temps I mentioned. But the particular bulb can have an effect on that. I use wide flood bulbs (not spots). Here are some pics of beardies exposed to the range of temps I mentioned.

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=735184,735184

All of this and everything else on this forum is only for you to consider. You will make your own decisions regarding how you keep your animals. I just encourage you to let your husbandry revolve/evolve around the actual animals and not some static care sheet or what someone says. The animals change all the time - your husbandry and the way you think about it should too.

Good luck,

Ian

Yes, dragons will move out of the heat if it's too hot. You're probably smart enough to take your hand out of heated water when it starts to GETS TOO HOT. That is not the point. You are trying to set up a cage with optimal conditions. Anything over 105 is probably not necessary and over 115 is just ludicrous.

I am sorry but I think you're being silly. When I offer my dragons temps over 115 and they use them and they are thriving I have to believe the dragons over your arbitrary barrier at 115 degrees. I have animals that use temps well over 115 (babies will sit under 115 for significant lenghts of time like it is nothing). So to me, your statement has no meaning. What are you basing that statement on? I'm basing my thoughts on what I see my animals using day in and day out.

Thanks,

Ian

how close are you keeping ur bulb from the basking spot ianstarr? i want to give your words a try and see how my beardie likes it. to get up to 140 degrees or so are you putting your bulb closer or are you just using a higher wattage? im using branches as basking spot and im putting one higher than the other so argos can have an option of which to use. but im afraid that my higher branch might be to close to the bulb. so a reply would be very appreciated ty

forgot to include that i have a uvb spot floodbulb(?). and my little guy is 10 weeks old

Hi Ty,

I would like to tell you some fixed distance but I don't think that I can. I think what is important is that you can accurately measure the temperature at the hottest point. In my first post in this thread I mentioned that I measured the temp. at 132.5 at the hottest spot. That was the very hottest spot I could find. 2cm away from that spot it was 119. So I would focus on a reasonably accurate measurement of the surface temps. Also, I like a bulb with a wide beam, not narrow like a spot. That is why I use a wide flood bulb. I am thinking/hoping it is a wider and more uniform distribution of heat than a spot bulb. Also, some kinds of bulbs are known to cause burns.

Thanks,

Ian

thnx for the feedback. one last question. if my beardie was getting burns, how would it look like and how would i be able to tell?

If your beardie was getting burned you would notice.

Also, I don't know if you read this or not but I like to offer younger beardies (like 10 weeks old) hot spot temps of 115-120. That is how I do it here anyway. And please don't forget cool temps are just as important. I like to have a cool end in the enclosure down to 70 if I can.

Thanks,

Ian

thnx and aye i am aware of having a cool end of 70 and yep i did read about having higher basking spots for babies. thnx again!

Why not give them a real range? How about 160, 180 degrees? Why not 200? By your rationale this makes sense. I don't really care what temperature you cook your dragons at, but ther are some very gullible newbies that will see this an think you know what you're talking about. They try it and wonder what went wrong. We continuously have this same type of discussion about housing dragons together and although it works occasionally, many times it ends in disaster.
There are reasons that books and care sheets give an optimal range. It's because that's the climate these creatures live in and flourish in. Think about it, genius.

Again, what are you basing your arbitrary limit of 115 on? Behavior/dragons using temps above 115 that you have not seen? Temps that you speculate might be detrimental? Again, I am basing my statements on what I see my adult, juvenile and baby dragons using on a daily basis - not theory but reality. I posted pics of some of those dragons and their condition in the last post.

Thanks,

Ian

Again, why not 160 or 180 degrees?

I have burned monitors at temps above 170. Not severely but definately noticeable. So to answer your question, from my experience, I feel that 180 is too hot. I like to offer the beardies the range of temps I have mentioned and monitors a very similar range only a little cooler (not intentional but they are in the basement) and a little hotter. As I mentioned, my dragons use those temps regularly and do very well with them.

Thanks,

Ian