Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This was around a 9 foot burmese python that came into my store from a friend that works in another pet shop in town. He brought it to me because he didn't know what to do. The animal basically was dropped off and they were told the guy was in jail for six months and no one fed it or took care of it. I will attach some pics, I basically manually cleaned the mouth out then treated it with betadine/iodine and pulled what was left of some infected teeth. The infection has spread in to the bone section of the jawline and was so bad that the throat area was completely sealed with infection. Hope these pics dont gross you out too much, they are relatively tame compared to being there. All in all, I pulled out a just a slight bit under one quarter cup of infection from it's mouth and nasal cavity. Kinda makes you wonder why people buy animals that they never intend to take care of.
We are currently exploring law enforcement possiblities just so you know. Pic with this post is just after I realized I should be taking pictures. this is the amount of stuff I took out before I started snapping pictures.
TOM

Here is another:

Another

Last one

I wish people who cause stuff liket his to animals should have the same thing done to them. I hope it does alright.
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Justin

Geez,

Horrible!! Is there any reliable online resources for treating mouthrot? I think it would be a good thing to know regardless.

Stan

A severe case like that a vet would probably administer an antibiotic like batyril, or amerikicin. But for most less severe cases iodine and betadine will usually be all that is needed. The owner just needs to be diligent about keeping it cleaned out and reappling the meds. Todd

This guy should be drawn and quartered, then fed to the burm!! The first Ball python I ever got had this so bad the infection ran through his whole body. It eventually ate holes in the poor things body and I had to put him down.

Todd,

Thanks for the info. I will keep that in mind.

Stan

Why do people do this to animals? I mean buy them or adopt them or whatever and then let them get like this? It's such a shame, since the only one who suffers is the innocent animal. Thanks for taking care of him!

Circusfan

The best way to treat mouthrot is preventing it with proper husbandry. I don't believe there is a "minor" case of mouthrot as they are usually secondary to something else, often an RI. zoologicalsupply is on the right track with consulting a herp vet (never heard of Dr.Wilson; I"ll chalk that up to being Canadian )

I would like to comment on the request for an internet guide to treating mouthrot. The internet is the worst place for the inexperienced to look to treat there animal's illnesses. A great place to get advice, if you stick around long enough to know who's who, but not play vet. A perfect example lies in a previous post. Now I don't know the details on this specific case, and I'm not picking on the poster because I"m sure the story would change if he shared more detail. I'm going to ad lib a bit to make my point a little more clear. Anyways, the post mentioned a snake with mouthrot that eventually spread throughout the body and began eating holes in the animal. Lets just say that this gent had attempted to treat with topical betadine. In his experience and from what the internet tells him this is a perfectly fine course of action. So what happens, the degree of severity goes undetected, the underlying cause isn't questioned, husbandry isn't corrected, (some or all of the above) and the infection can no longer be contained withen the respiratory tract. Sepsis terms when bacteria travels in the blood throughout the body. At this stage the prognosis drops from great to poor. Still, the internet gave answers before, along with ways to circumvent "costly" vet visits, and gives answers again, perhaps warming the snake, buying online pharmaceuticals and debriding the now many abscesses that are visible. The snake dies, no one blames ill advice, the gent tried his best and writes the death off due to a stubborn disease that just wouldn't get better. The truth is that both respiratory infections and stomatitis (mouth rot) have a good prognosis when the proper course of action is taken.

I know this story isn't needed by the few truly experienced keepers among this forum (I"ll refrain from naming my favorites for I"m sure I'll miss one or two), but I'm sure they didn't get this far in my post anyways because this is already passive knowledge to them. My point is that as vast as the internet is, any valuable information is diluted by inexperienced opinions. While searching for quick internet references may be a quick answer for many people, it is not the right answer. Get proffesional advice from people who can see and examine your animal. If you have an ill pet, take it to the vet.

On second thought, my knee is sore so I"m going to type acupuncture into google and see if I can figure out how to treat it...

I am gonna take your previous posts length as my fault because I didnt spell out my whole reason for requesting that info. So here it is......

My point of that post was not to find a way to "work around" going to the vet. A trip to the vet is obvious. My biggest problem is this. My closest vet that also does reptiles is about 2 hours away. I would have to take off work in order to take the time to get him there or wait until one of my days off (which are thursdays and sundays) so I can still get paid. I asked my question simply because, instead of allowing my animal to suffer or her condition worsen within the next couple of days, there might be something that I can do in the meantime to help lessen her discomfort or prevent any further infection until one of those days.

Furthermore, anyone who is like me and checks their animals cages daily and does a full body check every other day will know when something is wrong with their snake before it gets too serious.

If I break my leg, it's pretty obvious that I need to go to the hospital. However, in the meantime while I am getting their, there are things that I can be doing to help limit my discomfort as well as preventing further injury.

But as being such an experienced individual, im sure you already knew that.

Stan

I was afraid my rambling would ruffle some scales. I try to keep my posts generic and they are often half intended for the many people just browsing the forums as well as the initial posters.

Just look near the end of this thread as of March 14 and you have another way to treat mouthrot. While this may be benificial, and as you had mentioned, may be comforting while waiting for a vet visit, many people will see this information and attempt to treat there animals without having a proper medical assessment.

Now for those who sort of know me via these forums, they could probably attest that while my posts may be quite helpfull, I do have a habit of occasionally letting my frustrations show. I believe this comes from seeing requests for online pharmeucuticals and treatment for RI's on almost every forum. Combine this with all the nasty crap I see at the emergency clinic and I can see how sometimes I may lose sight of those who do things right.

Joey, no offense taken, but for the record we did everything we could at the time to save the poor boy. He was already to far gone by the time I got him. I don't truley know that it was the mouth rot that killed him or there were other underlying problems. He died within 4 weeks of my bringing him home, so I think it was even to late for proper husbandry to help. Didn't have a computer yet, so didn't go there for help. Went straight to a vet that the pet store I got it from recomended. The vet gave me injectable antibiotics, which I had to learn to inject. Kept the ulcers cleaned out with the betadine. I worried over him like a parent fusses over a colicky child. Lesson learned was not to buy from reptile warehouses in the future. Hell, the guy that bought him up was so ignorant of Balls that he told me his wife had one that got to be 75 (not 7.5) pounds. Shoulda known right then I was in trouble. Have had a pair of normals now for 13 years with no problems whatsoever. Live and learn.

Quig

there are third and fourth generation cephalosporin antibiotics that I have seen work in cases almost this severe. Either Cefepime, Ceftazidime or Ceftriaxone would definitely be worth looking at. Dosages are 20 mg/kg every 48 to 72 hours. Hydration will be critical as this snake is most likely having difficulty drinking. Good luck.

Kelly

Dr. Mark Wilson is my consulting vet, luckily, one of the best herp vets in the country. We are doing everything possible, wish us luck.
TOM

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Those pics were really gross. I'm glad you posted them because I have never come across anything like that. If I ever do, I'll somewhat know what's going on and be able to better treat it right away. Good learning experience, unfortunately at the expense of the burm. Glad he crossed your path!
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DZ

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

Keep us updated!

The best and least expensive cure I have found for mouthrot is Nolvasan. It can be used full strength to wash the inflamed areas once you clean out the mouth. It does not kill new living tissue like using hydrogen pyroxide does, it just attacks the bacteria and clears it up fast. Be sure to hold the snakes head down while you are spraying or swabing out the mouth area, they can asperate by sucking the solution down the glottis into the lung. Dipping a q-tip in the solution and applying it that way may be the safest way but for really bad cases I don't know if you can get enough of it up into the nasal cavities and around the back area of the teeth with wiping it over the areas. Most online veterinary supplies have Nolvasan for sale. I also use it dilute in a spray bottle to clean Vision cages interior and keep a five gallon paint bucket with a dilute solution with cage hooks soaking in it. It does not corode the matal like a bleach solution does and it is half the price of Rocal. Nolvasan it both bacteriostatic and virucidal according to the label.

Hope it helps.
wlamore

I used nolvasan, I love the stuff, some of the best stuff out there on the market. Anyways sorry for the delay in getting on here, busy with online business, retail store and the zoo.
Thanks
TOM

Just to update everyone, the burm died over the weekend. I was pretty sure it was gonna happen, sorry I didn't get to respond to too many posts had surgery on a tiger and trying to get my new retail store renovated so been quite busy.
Thanks for the replies though, I am sure I will get to read them some day.
Later
Tom Snyder

aaww man!! well, atleast he is in a better place now, and no longer within the care of ignorant humans. You did what you could atleast, and hopefully that made him a little more comfortable so it wasn't suffering too badly through it's final moments.

Stan

Man, poor fellow. Well, you did what you could, and at least he died in a good secure environment. For what it's worth, we're grateful that you tried.
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0.2 chickens (Falcon & Condor)
0.2 dog mutts (half ownership, only mine when they misbehave, Lucy & Amy)
0.1 Halflinger horse (Crissy)
0.0 Arizona Mountain Kingsnake (coming soon)
1.1 parents
Still searching for 1.0 WC human

At least you know you tried your best!