Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just rescued 3 eastern box from a pet store today. One is VERY sick with a huge clump of cheesy pus on one eye, the other swollen shut, one nostril closed and slimy mouth. I'm thinking advanced vitamin A deficiency since they basically were being starved. (only iceburg lettuce in the cage which they weren't eating). Here's the advice I think might be applicable. SUGGESTIONS???

"1. Get the infection under control- take your turtle to ANY vet and note to the vet you think your turtle has an eye infection and other turtle owners you know have suggested using Gentocin Antibiotic Eye Ointment. Smear some over her eyes per direction several times a day. It takes anywhere from a week or two for it to clear up. If it doesn't clear up by then, she might have another kind of eye problem. Never take it for granted that it's always a vitamin A deficency induced eye infection. It could be an injury.

2. Remove the harden pus from eyes. Go to a petstore or online mail order pet supplier and buy a bottle of Tetrafauna "Turtle Eye Rinse". It has soften agents in it to help remove the pus. Use it when you are soaking your turtle in about an inch and half of tepid water. Do this 2 times a day for the first week! She must get her eyes comfortable or she won't want to eat. Sometimes just soaking her twice daily will allow the pus to be pushed out after awhile.

3. Get her to eat something while she recoverying. Buy caplets of vitamin A (usually cod liver oil) and poke a hole in it and squeeze a drop of the liquid onto anything that will hold the product and force feed her the food. Try cooked chicken, try a soaked dog kibble. It's just a small turtle and she can't bite your finger off. Force feeding box turtles in relatively easy-just takes patience and effort on your part. If nothing works, then make her a gruel of baby mashed sweet potato, with baby salt free chicken and the cod liver oil. Try placing her in a bowl of the thin gruel, or feed her via a syringe or eye dropper."

It also has a hole in the plastron (see link). It looks relatively new, as if perhaps it was made by the turtle being stepped on while resting on a piece of gravel (?). I'm sure the turtles were local capture and sold to the pet store. I don't see any blood or pus there but it is definitely not good looking.

And Yes, I am going to report it to the DNR since the sale of box turtles is illegal in my state. Right now though I just need some assistance since I've never had a sick turtle before.

chipolaman@yahoo.com

I would use Gerber baby food chicken for a force feed base and add a few drops of cod liver oil (depending on how big your syringe is, ideally you'd want about a drop of oil per feeding. You can also mix in some reptile vitamins and calcium. You can also get Gerber baby food sweet potatoes, for the vitamin A and beta carotine, but I'd start with chicken first. I use a larger paper clip (pointed ends pointing away from the mouth) to pry open the mouths of my 3 toeds, my ornates will often open their mouths if I tickle their jaw and cheeks with the end of the syringe.

I'd use warm soaks to clear the eyes and there is a terramyacin antibiotic eye ointment that is available over the counter, don't know about the one you mentioned, but I've used terramyacin and also the stuff thats in neosporin (in an eye ointment) with success. Not sure about the eye rinse.

Thank you very much for your suggestion! I'm going to start on that with the other person's idea immediately. At this point I'm sick for the poor animal but I'm going to try as hard as I can.
Regards
Charles

Try soaking it in a Pedialyte bath(unflavored).
I don't have personal experience, but from what I read, long soaking periods can help soften the pus dramatically (The Box Turtle Manual), and at any rate rehydrating the guy would certainly be beneficial.
It also looks as though its shell has burn damage, but its hard to tell from the photo.
Definitely report this.
Good luck with it!
Stephanie

Thank you very much for your suggestion! I'm going to start on that with the other person's idea immediately. At this point I'm sick for the poor animal but I'm going to try as hard as I can.
Regards
Charles

that is definately burn damage on the shell, but it is extremely old, not something recent.

Get a tube from your vet and a syringe for tube feeding. It's more effective than squirting things in their mouth. After a good soaking, tube feed them babyfood enhanced with cod liver oil. I use the squash babyfoods (like yellow squash or butternut squash) in the youngest baby type (that's the finest puree). It won't go through the tube as it is, so I put a spoonful in a glass, add several drops of cod liver oil, add water, and stir the heck out of it, then suck it up with the syringe. I had a girl I kept alive for six months like this. It was a lot of work to tube a turtle every other day for six months, but it was worth it.

Right, I recognized the burn damage. I figure it happened during a burn over in a brush fire or during timber cutting and subsequent cleanup. I often find dead box turtles that didn't make it. It'd be a shame if this guy survived that and succumbed to a trash seller's apathy. As it turned out, he was served with a warrant today by Alabama DNR Officers. That doesn't save this rurtle and I'm not sure I can either, but at least I don't think the store will buying (or just picking up off the road) and selling any more box turtles after starving them. What really disgusted me was that they put the turtles in these cardboard boxes yesterday with cute little pics of kids holding a hamster, an iguana, a kitten and yep- a turtle (although it was one of the little red ears). Yeah, I know they buy the boxes from a pet supply but the irony of the [pics of happy little kids holding the healthy looking little animals on the box that inside was a starved, sick, dying turtle with curdled puss balls hanging off his eyes was a tragedy I hope I never see again.

I appreciate everyone's input. I tried to force feed the guy this afternoon but couldn't get his mouth open and didn't want to stress him out too badly although I did clean his eyes several times. He's soaking now (and last night) and I've been misting him. He has so much pus in his nostrils I was afraid any food he might expel and get it lodged in his nostrils as well. I'm not holding out too much hope but am going to try again tomorrow on the food.

I was wondering too if the liquid from Vitamin A capsules mixed with the baby food would perhaps give him a Vitamin A boost or would that be too concentrated?
Regards
Charles

I use the cod liver oil and yellow/orange squash or carrot babyfood for this vitamin A boost in a natural form. You can't o.d. on it this way.

For opening the mouth, I will coax the turtles head out, grip it on either side of the neck with my thumb and forefinger behind the head (so it can't retract) but not squeezing it. The turtle's front half of the plastron is resting on my palm. I use another hand (and most often have a helper) to use the cap of a bic pen (the stick part of it that clips it to your pocket) to gently pry the mouth open from one side, then point this stick down the throat (it doesn't reach far) along the side of the mouth and in the corner of the mouth to keep the mouth from closing.

Before doing this, I have taken the feeding tube (it's a long thin rubber tube with slits at the "business" end, and a flare at the top that fits onto the syringe) and held it over the turtle and looked at it. I hold the business end over the 1/3 mark back from the front of her carapace, then add an inch for head/neck. I make a mark on the tube with permanent marker at this point. This will be the point to which the tube is inserted, so that this mark is still showing.
I've also taken the tube/syringe combo and filled it with the food (you will have to judge the amount to use, I use an amount smaller than the aproximate size of their head. (food should be watered and thin enough to go in and out of tube without too much effort.

Then, with the turtle held with it's mouth open as above, my wife will make sure a glob of food is on the end of the tube, and gently insert it and slide it back so the mark is right outside the mouth. She'll then slowly inject the food while I hold the mouth and head steady and open. Once it's in, she slowly withdraws the tube and I remove the pen cap and release the head.

I've done this whole thing myself by holding the turtle between my knees, sitting on the floor, and using a differnt tool for opening and holding the mouth open. I had to hold the tool in my teeth, the head in my left hand, and use my right to feed in the tube and inject food, though, so it was quite difficult and I don't recommend it (if you do, be sure the tool you use is clean before holding it in your mouth). It just so happened that some times during the six months I was tubing one of my gals my wife was not around to help.

Excellent advice! I got some food into him today using that method. Plus, I'm excited to report that he opened his eyes today. Yesterday was the last pus discharge. They're still swollen but he can see, although I don't know if it might have caused some permanent damage. He also hissed and moved his head fairly quick today and voided while I was feeding him. It was very watery but didn't seem to be sickly. Watery is fine since he's only had water and the pedialyte for the last few days. I only have him about half a syringe of food today. He does still have some slight wheezing through his nostrils and they're a little bit sticky but relatively clear and clean, compared to what they were. I'll keep everyone posted.

Thanks again!
Charles

Thats great news! Sounds like you're doing a terrific job with him. I hope he continues to improve! Once the eyes and nose clear up, and he can see and smell a little better, he'll have better chances of taking an interest in food and maybe start eating on his own.
Stephanie

Well, "Burnie" is making vast improvements. He began eating crickets last week but then developed Pneumonia. He had mucus bubbles out his nose, eyes swollen shut again with large pus excretions. You could actually hear him rattling and wheezing when he breathed. We started him on an antibiotic injection twice a day (10 day course) a week ago and two days ago he began eating again. His eyes are a little puffy but today he literally tried to climb the enclosure for some nightcrawlers I picked up after a rain. He knows my wife is the bearer of sharp needles but that I bring crickets and worms.

On the pet shop...well, they are probably going to slip by on the illegal sale of box turtles charge mainly because the clerk at the time of the sale was a minor and the owner who lives in another city claimed he didn't know what the kid was doing. But they've been served notice that they are under scrutiny, no doubt about it.

Plus, I also found out from a third party that the pet shop is no longer even accepting litters of stray kittens and puppies. The store had pretty much turned into a dumping ground for unwanted litters. Needless to say, it was also a Parvo and Distemper cesspool.

I went in this morning to look around and they seem to be focusing on fish and birds. The birds didn't look well but I guess I only have enough swords for one crusade right now.

I also received permission from the DNR to keep Burnie and the others after his recovery. I think he's probably always going to be a fragile animal now after his ordeal especially since he's had pneumonia and was a burn victim at one time.

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Here's the other part: There are two other box turtles (both males) in need of a home. We all know that returning them to the wild is both dangerous to them and to the wild population. However, I have all the turtles I can take care of and don't want to add any more. My others have been with me a long time (over 30 years). These other two were rescued at the same time as Burnie. All have been in quarantine since then (separated singly) and the other two show no signs of illness and are eating well. Are there any responsible box turtle afficionados who would like to give one or both a home? I live in south Alabama but travel to GA, MS, north FL, TN and KY quite often so we could probably set up a transfer time within the next 30 days or so.

Needless to say, ONLY experienced keepers or those willing to learn fast (see following)! If anyone contacts me wanting to adopt them, I will probably post his/her name/user ID here and basically run it through the forum for 'general approval'. I'm new here and don't really know anyone but I think you guys who are long-timers probably know who is adept. NO NEWBIES unless you're going to come to MY HOUSE and get a turtle care lesson and send me photos BEFOREHAND of the enclosure(s) you plan on keeping the turtles in.

Let's be plain about one thing, though:

There is NO COST, NO CHARGE, NO TRADE, NO BARTER being asked for or accepted in this situation! (It is ILLEGAL in the State of Alabama to engage in any sort of COMMERCE in native species of Box Turtles). They are absolutely FREE to a responsible person who will give them a good home. Email me at chipolaman@yahoo.com if interested.

Thanks
Charles

THANK YOU FOR TAKING CARE OF THIS SICK GUY.
IT UPSETS ME TO SEE THE PIC.
PLEASE REPORT THE STORE. FOR A RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT TO HAVE AN ANIMAL AND LET IT BE SO SO SICK SHOULD BE A CRIME.
YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON.
BETH AND JEFF (OWNERS AND TURTLE LOVERS)

THANK YOU FOR TAKING CARE OF THIS SICK GUY.
IT UPSETS ME TO SEE THE PIC.
PLEASE REPORT THE STORE. FOR A RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT TO HAVE AN ANIMAL AND LET IT BE SO SO SICK SHOULD BE A CRIME.
YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON.
BETH AND JEFF (OWNERS AND TURTLE LOVERS)