Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi Rainer,

In regards to the below posts, I want to make sure that I am making some correct assumptions. Since you have been doing this a lot longer than me and have even had success with inter-species breeding I thought I might run this by you...

1. Until both male and female have shed after brumation it is a waste of time to put them together.
2. I should leave male and female kingsnakes together (except feeding time) for several days after both have shed.

Now I have a couple of questions - if both have shed and you put them together but there is no pre-breeding twitching; does that mean that one or the other is either not mature or not ready for breeding? My experience has been IMMEDIATE activity between the two snakes resulting in eggs but this year a few pairs have acted not interested in procreation.

Would you leave them together even if they act like they are not interested in each other?

Thanks Rainer,

Peter

Hey Peter! How's it going!
While we're waiting for the other 'Blue' guy to come on:
With my kings, I will leave them together if they don't act stressed out. Has always worked for me.
If mating doesn't occur right away, it's usually because the snakes just want to make sure it REALLY IS spring. Since fluctuations occur naturally in the wild, some females/males may choose to wait another week or so. I've seen this happen a lot in the past 25 years of my breeding experience. Last year i had a pair of Columbia county eastern that didn't hook up until JUNE!!! But still had 14 healthy babies (even though it was OCtober already). That was one of my latest breedings ever. I kept both of them in the same cage from April until June and they got along just fine! (Of course I would seperate them during feeding time).
Just my 1.5 cents
I figure the more info the smarter we'll all be!

Zee

Zee, Sounds good and thanks.

My Maryland Eastern Kings are locked up now - and have been since 8:45 PM (it is now 10:10 PM). The male is "undulating" like a caterpillar... guess he is gettin' his groove on, huh?

Hey Zee - what substrate are you using these days? I have been using aspen chips and have lost a couple of snakes lately. I believe that they are swallowing aspen chips and it's killing them. Thinking of switching to regular old garden mulch.

What do you use?

Thanks,

Peter

P.S. only a month and a week until our field herping trip. can't wait man!

Some of the mulch sold in Northern MD and Southeastern PA comes from a large paper mill and contains high levels of dioxin. There is a loop-hole in the hazardous waste regs (Fed) that allows them to mix some of their "waste" into an end product and by somw miracle it doesn't have to be tracked or accounted for. Because its now a "product" its not "waste" so their disposal is taken care of by the consumer poisoning their soil.

Just make sure the mulch dosen't originate from a PA paper mill.

Bob

p.s. The MD female has shed and the male has blue eyes, so it should be about 4 days to a week. He ate a f/t rat right off so maybe he'll gain some length this year.

good news on your snakes.

right now as i type this, my MD's are locked up and one of my brooksi pairs is thrashing around ans so is my Ocracoke OBK pair.

How will I know where the mulch comes from? I don't want dioxin in my house.

- Peter

We are fortunate to have access to organic mulch where I live. You want to be sure nothing is added like weed killers or fertilizer.

Ask at the local home center where they get their mulch, if it comes from PA I wouldn't use it. If you're intent on using mulch I'd find someone that could get it from local lumber mills such as Edrich from Baltimore County, I think they are on Old Court just north of Granite, Maryland They are the only one I know of but I'm sure Frederick County has some lumber/saw mills.

The Albino male and Het female were locked-up last night. She is now in his hide box and he's sleeping on the aspen (read couch)! Some things transend species barriers.

Bob

Hey Peter! I use only newspaper. It's not pretty to look at, but it has worked for me for twenty five years. Pine shavings are okay and I havn't had a problem with that either, but be careful during feeding time so that your snake doesn't accidentally ingest a few shavings. All of my cages presently have newspaper in them, except one (that one has pine shavings in it).
Looking forward to seeing you next month - take care, man!

Zee

>>Hey Zee - what substrate are you using these days? I have been using aspen chips and have lost a couple of snakes lately. I believe that they are swallowing aspen chips and it's killing them. Thinking of switching to regular old garden mulch.

Peter, what does the vet say about the snakes that died? I have a snake or two die each year (out of about 100, so the percentage doesn't bother me) and I always have them posted. I'm keeping hondos on carefresh and pyros some on carefresh, some on aspen. I've never had the vet find impacting in any snake that was posted.

Terry

1. Until both male and female have shed after brumation it is a waste of time to put them together.
No.
But it can be more fun to seperate them after a few days and then reinroiduce them and evaluate their behavior for another couple days. Kinda like a green thumb with plants can apply to snakes as well.

2. I should leave male and female kingsnakes together (except feeding time) for several days after both have shed.
Yes I would leave them together and if no activity in a few days I switch the male to another female (if you have a lot of snakes like I do) and this way you don't aster valuable sperm or ovulation time.

Now I have a couple of questions - if both have shed and you put them together but there is no pre-breeding twitching; does that mean that one or the other is either not mature or not ready for breeding? .

I do thing a little less hasty than other breeders so it is a little hard for me to answer this.
I keep my snakes cooled until end of March and then put them together before feeding. They seem to have shed "naturally" with the spring season while cooled and they breed as soon as I warm them up and feed afterwards.If I see the female has not bred then I feed 5 large rodents and wait a couple days before inrtoducing then male again. He is usually busy with another female during this time anyway.

Would you leave them together even if they act like they are not interested in each other?.
I would if I have no other backup male or female. I always have backups so when one is busy the other may be regerating sperm or the female might be developing her folicles. (You can feel the females follicles on her underside) if you feel the follicles she is ready. If not I take the male out for a while to seperate them. But I don't think keeping them together will help. I just stick to the old motto "seperation makes the heart grow fonder" lol!

Also I use paper towel or newspaper in the encloser during breeding to see if a sperm plug is left in the cage overnight (usually means breeding was a success)and then stick it under a microscope to see if they are swimming.

Sorry for the quick response but its 1:30 am here and I won't be around to post again until late tommorow night.

I appreciate the help man.

- Peter

Hi Rainer,

I feel like i'm missing something, with no one here warning of cannabalism if the lpairs are left together. I have (ok, HAD) a male chain king that would argue it's not a good idea--if he could!

(I came back from a two day trip and found my four-inch-longer female had eaten him; she was lying on her side in a semicircle, and only over the next several days regained the capacity to right herself and crawl. Not a pretty sight.)

One other thing: Instead of looking for sperm plugs which might or might not show up, have you tried simply expressing the sperm from the female? That assures not only that sperm was expelled from the male, but that it reached its intended destination in the female.

I just press gently on the female's belly towards the vent, starting an inch or so from the vent, and press out a little BB-sized sample, which i then view under the scope. The process is not unlike popping a male, but you're doing it to a female instead, and you're pressing from the OTHER side of the vent.

Terry