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Regarding the posts about the Sweetwater event, since it is a public civic event, you are free to talk about it as long as your posts stay within our usual guidelines. We have no intention to censor discussion or protect this event. Because of the graphic nature of the photos, we would like to ask you to link to them rather than posting them here and please warn that they are of a graphic nature.

Thanks for your cooperation!

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Ginger Sanders
Staff Director
Email PHGinger
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"READ THIS" was alittle vague so I thought I'd help the process of information.
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Tom
TCJ Herps
"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

Thanks Tom

SWEETWATER REPORTER (Texas) 14 March 05 Round-Up records fifth highest pound total (Ben Barkley)
In a moment that will be remembered by all of those in attendance, the Sweetwater Jaycees honored one of their own during the final moments of the 47th annual World's Largest Rattlesnake Round-Up Sunday afternoon.
After all the awards were handed out, Dennis Cornutt's three sons -- Jason, Heath and Ray -- were called into the show pit, where they received a standing ovation in honor of their father. Several people wiped away tears as the three men stood saluting their father, who died in an automobile accident Friday night.
Law enforcement officials said Cornutt suffered a heart attack while traveling home from the Round-Up Friday and rolled his vehicle.
Julie Hurn was presented with the Rooster of the Year award during the Round-Up. She raised the plaque over her head and simply said, "This one is for you Dennis."
Hurn, who is one of the co-chairman of the cookoff, asked those in attendance at Saturday's awards ceremony to raise their drink in honor of Cornutt.
Jaycee member Hank Waldrop said Saturday morning that Cornutt would want the Round-Up to go on. And that was exactly what happened at the Nolan County Coliseum.
For the first time since 1992, the total number of pounds of rattlesnakes turned in topped the 10,000 pound mark.
A total of 10,212 pounds was recorded during the four days of the Round-Up. That is the fifth highest total in the history of the event.
A trend continued as Eric Timaeus brought in the largest snake of the weekend. His sixth straight winning find was 77 inches in length.
"This is just becoming a normal thing," he said after showing the crowd his snake.
Jamie Nail was the top group to bring in the most pounds. A total of 1,665 pounds was brought in by the group.
One of the most entertaining events of the weekend was the rattlesnake eating contest. And history was made during the contest.
For the first time, a tie was recorded for first place. Eric Hurley and Sean Powers tied for eating the most snake in a 60-second span.
Officials made a determination to have the two men compete in a 30-second "eat-off" to determine the first place finisher. Hurley was crowned the champion after the second contest. Two-time champion Allen Perrie was third in the contest.
The Jaycees also conducted their 16th annual cookoff. Ronnie Wade of Hillsboro captured the grand champion title.
"I had a great time. This is my first time here," he said. "I am going to be back."
Wade and his team, Blazen BBQ finished second in the brisket competition; and third in the ribs competition and snake competition.
Winners of each category in the cookoff were One Slice at a Time for brisket; Crawford Cooking for chicken; Bar-B-Que and Brew Crew for ribs; Barnes Buddies BBQ Team for snake; and Weldon E. Lloyd for chili.
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Round-Up records fifth highest pound total

Gee Wes..

I normally look forward to your posts...not this time...that's ranks in the "Crimes against Nature" range.

Whether is snakes, whales, seals...it's all just wrong

I see the creator did exact a toll..though, hope that was just a warm up.

Al
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The more people I meet...the better I like my venomous snakes.

Please take no offense to this message but are you upset that they are killing snakes or is it the volume in which its' being done?
If it is the volume it seems that the population can sustain the harvest since it seems that the snakes are still quite common in the area. No difference to the controlled season and subsequent take of deer or other game animals.
If it is the fact that its' your love for snakes then the issue becomes one of personal morals (much like PETAs' misguided views). I LOVE snakes (as well as all animals, especially reptiles) but have no problems eating animal products or utilizing the byproducts (skin, bone, antler, etc.).
I keep and breed various Chelonia yet have no problem with the legal harvest and consumption of their wild counterparts.
From what I have heard the animals are eaten, the skins are utilized to make clothing/accessories. Exactly where does this differ from the hunting/harvest of other wild animals other than the fact it is held in a carnival type atmosphere?
I know my opinion won't be popular but please, lets' keep it civil and on an adult level.

Let me rephrase the part about the legal take and consumption of Chelonia.
I am referring to the practice within the U.S. where established seasons and bag limits apply. My point being that a sustainable harvest should be the objective.

I'm with you up to a point here. I would have no problem with individuals going out and killing snakes to eat (as long as it's something common), and as long as it's dead, why not make use of every possible part of it, rather than let things go to waste? I wouldn't be too upset about the roundups if I thought that most of the meat was being eaten, and none of the snakes were killed JUST for skins or suveneirs, but I'm not convinced that's the case.

On the other hand note that in most states you are strictly forbidden to sell any part of the animals you kill during a regulated hunting season. It all has to be for personal use. Imagine an event where they hauled in 1,000 deer, skinned them, and mounted the antlers to sell...

The fact that snakes happen to be my favorite animal doesn't give me any more right to complain about people killing them. I'm not going to stop feeding mice to my snakes because people keep them as pets, and I don't expect rat keepers to go ballistic when city workers in New York lay poison for the rats there. As hot keepers, I think we have to be a little more realistic...

I'm sure I'm rambling now, but I think there's a point in there somewhere...

Thank you for a very well thought out response!!
I cannot say for certain what percentage of the animals are consumed although I would venture to say a large portion due to the novelty factor of consuming something "exotic" combined with the large turnout at these events.
As far as the commercialization of the event versus typical hunting seasons, If I'm not mistaken Texas has HUGE events displaying legally harvested wildlife (deer, feral hog, exotics, etc.) the only difference obviously being that the animals are not killed "on site".
In regards to selling the byproducts I would compare it to commercial fishing where the animals and the byproducts of legal harvest are considered fair commodities.
On to the idea that irreparable harm is being done to the population of the animals. I contend that due to the fact that harvest numbers have not decreased and the fact that the animals themselves are more prolific than most game animals, can anyone offer verifiable proof that the roundups are decimating the population?

There is a difference and from what I have seen, these snakes are not all eaten. With many of these roundups all animals not eaten or even used for skins are killed at the end of the shows. I also saw a picture of a coral snake among the disturbing images posted. Also, there is plenty of eco system damage done during the roudnups. I am aware it is illegal to gas burrows but people still do it. I have no problem with people eating animals or using animal bi-products. The comparison to PETA is a bit unfair (nobody is covering themselves in blood here nor is anyone funding people to teach people how to make explosives and use terrorist action to liberate animals. Penn and Tellers documentary showed some interesting things). There is sensless slaughter occuring at these round ups so it is very disturbing to see the extent of it. I was talking to a university biologist who sponsors my herpetological organization about these round ups and people's (especially southerners for some reason) need to shoot things. The need to kill goes far beyond our usefullness of the animals we kill. He mentioned about a time he was watching a man try and shoot a king fisher on a pole (keep in mind this is a protected animal) and times he has seen people on bridges picking off sliders suning themselves on rocks. I have no idea how long I want to babble on about this but i can name quite a few things I saw very wrong from those photos. While what you mentioned made sense, it simply wasn't the case. There were many snakes in there which are not commonly found and their population can be hurt. Many of the novelty items were not made after using the meat. And I know many snakes are killed and simply not used. From what I understand, it is rare to find a roundup which lets animals go that are not used. Nothing makes it out. Sorry I cannot agree and be "realistic" because while the situation in your post would be a nice reality...its far from what occurs.

Quote (I am aware it is illegal to gas burrows but people still do it.) There are many things that are illegal yet people still do(litter, collecting that coveted specimen during closed seasons, smoke weed LOL). Seriously though, with ANY type of activity involving the ecosystem there will always be a few who will use unscrupulous means to achieve their goals.
As far as "southerners" and their bloodlust I have to disagree. I am a southerner and a hunter. The overwhelming majority of hunters that I have met (and there have been many in several southern states) tend to treat the environment better than many herpers I have ran across. I have yet to see a hunter tear apart rotten trees, litter pristine landscape with tin or boards or strip trees of their bark looking for their quarry.

I also saw the pictures of the Coral snake and other "incidental" catches being sold as nicknacks. There will always be a market for the unusual even if you personally find it distasteful. Thats the great thing about being uniquely individual, one mans trash is another mans treasure. In addition, as with any commercial harvesting, there will always be incidental catches. If you eat fish then I am sure you are aware of the huge amount of havoc it wreaks on non target species. At least with the roundups the end result of the carnage is being utilizied instead of being discarded after being killed.

I do not condone hunting/harvesting any species that cannot be sustained yet have to ask once again,is there any unbiased proof that these roundups are having a detrimental effect on the population?
I know the topic is an emotional one because of our love for reptiles but I can't help but think if you remove this factor from the equation then it becomes nothing more than any other type of legal commercial hunting/harvesting (albiet a little twisted considering the atmosphere involved). As a hunter and someone used to seeing animals being skinned, gutted and cleaned I was not offended or shocked by the photos. I still believe that the majority of the animals are consumed due to the very nature of the crowd (wanting to get the sights, sounds, smells and taste of the exotic or scary). I also have a hard time believing that ANY of the animals would be discarded if for no other reasons than the valuable hide.
However as always, I could be wrong LOL!!

Actually, contrary to what you think, Rattlesnake numbers are down. For these roundups people are having to go farther afield to collect enough to warrant having the roundup. The numbers being taken cannot be sustained by the population of breeding individuals. Any search will bring up numberous articles on this very fact... as will many common to see documentaries.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
3.5.3 Leopard geckos (2.0 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 0.1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short), 1.0 Rainwater Albino (Mycah), 0.4 Poss. Het. Albino (Annika, Lace, Rain and Aris) and 2.1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice, Malfeas, and Mystic))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
3 cats (Ashe, Sahara and Hercules)
6 Fish (4 Red Danios, 1 Cardinal Fish, and 1 Tiger Barb)
8 Ramshorn snails
"And a Partridge in a Pear Tree!"

Lucien,
Could you be so kind as to direct me to a good starting point?
I am not interested in papers or documentaries made by enthusiasts or entities who have a vested opinion in the matter. Something along the lines of being written/produced by field biologists or state/local wildlife agencies would fit the bill nicely.
As with most issues where a passion or dislike (it works both ways) for the animal is involved it sometimes becomes very difficult to offer an overview not swayed by our personal feeling regarding the subject.
Not trying to be difficult but would like to better understand the full reality behind what is going on and overlook the sensationalism being brought to the table by those who are offended merely by the roundups without any physical evidence that there is harm being done to the population.
As I eluded to before is it a sustainable harvest? If so, what exactly is the issue at hand? From the surface it appears that it is because of the number of years the event has been held in conjunction with the amount of animals being consistant each year. Combined with the fact that herpers seem to post of encounters quite frequently throughout the season leads one to believe that all is well.
Thanks

The studies going on in the field now are still researching the impact of collection by Rattlesnake Roundups.. however they have been researching the impact of environmental destruction on Crotalus atrox and other species of Crotalus. If environmental destruction is having an impact on their populations... Rattlesnake Roundups sure aren't helping any by removing more breedable adults and smaller individuals from the areas..

www.ssarherps.org/pages/stateconservation.htm

This is simply a page that lists species that are being reconsidered for special status within states.. New Mexico has been recommended to investiate the impact of Rattlesnake Roundups by the Society due to reports from amateurs and herpitologists with personal observations of the decline in species numbers as well as reports from the actual people who collect the snakes for the roundups. Most of the actual reports done are on C. horridus populations in their ranges and the hunting of them in accordance with collection for clothing accessories and decorative items and what happened to their population due to it... I dont object totally to roundups... mostly their treatment of the animals and the "get them all" mentality of most of the collectors adding to the animals being captured. I believe strongly that this should be regulated because the population cannot support this level of harvesting for very long.. No animal population could. We're seeing the same thing with shark species and their decline from over-fishing... as well salmon and other fish... whales... The results of this kind of thing are seen widely in other species and animal groups. Its just a matter of time until it shows in the rattlesnake popultions.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
3.5.3 Leopard geckos (2.0 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 0.1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short), 1.0 Rainwater Albino (Mycah), 0.4 Poss. Het. Albino (Annika, Lace, Rain and Aris) and 2.1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice, Malfeas, and Mystic))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
3 cats (Ashe, Sahara and Hercules)
6 Fish (4 Red Danios, 1 Cardinal Fish, and 1 Tiger Barb)
8 Ramshorn snails
"And a Partridge in a Pear Tree!"

Lucien,
That is what I'm talking about.
You seem to have a level headed approach to the situation in general. On one side we have the "kill em' all" group and on the other you have the "stop the killing of innocent snakes" group. Rarely do the two groups meet in the middle to form a rational plan to protect the species while allowing legal, sustainable harvest.
In my humble opinion that is where the problem lies with conservation, gun control, etc.. If emotions could be put aside for a bit then the world would be a better place indeed.
Thanks again for the reply

While never actually attending one myself it sounds like the rattlesnake roundups are more about celebrating the killing of a "nuisance species". However barbaric I don't exactly have means to say it is wrong and thus all you are reading is more opinion.I never actually understood the whole hunting thing (outdoors, tracking ect yes, but the killing, no) but have to say that I'm not against it. Yes, the population is down, the roundups arn't helping, but neither is the spread of pavement so to speak. I wonder if the rounders (if that is what you call them) are the same farmers that complain about the rodent problems they have or perhaps city slickers looking to get back to their caveman roots

ps, I'm sure another horror story, but isn't it common for these animals to be tortured, killed unmercifully and played with during rattlesnake games? Is there a parallel with the kid and the magnifying glass?