Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm doing a study on the Desert Night Lizard, Xantusia v. vigilis and need to obtain more of these lizards. The dealer that I obtained the ones that I am working with has retired. Does anyone know who sells them? Thanks.

Thouhgt I saw some last week in their.

Good luck on your quest to find them, and Studies of them
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PHEve / Eve

The problem is that the states in which this species is found prohibit any commercial activity of native animals. Are you in a state where they are found?
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Firehouse Herps

Unless this is very recent, they can't possibly--I purchased the animals I had in a pet store about 10 years ago.
I'm hoping to acquire some again for similar reasons--they are extremely engaging little guys, and I want to captive-breed them.

Ah, yes, I was right--see here, you can collect them in California with a sport fishing license:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:vB-0_t_199gJ:www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/fg1502.pdf desert night lizard sale&hl=en

Yes, you can collect them in California with a fishing license, bag limits do apply. I never implied otherwise. You cannot however sell them within the state or from the state. It is also unlawful to breed them for commercial purposes. California does issue special breeders permits for a few specific species of snakes common to the pet trade. There are no permits issued for any lizard species. The law is current and has been around awhile. It may or may not have been on the books ten years ago. It would not be the first time a pet store has illegally sold a particular species or subspecies. The other states where these lizards are found have similar laws.

Randy
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Firehouse Herps

I do not believe that all the states where this lizard occurs prohibit sales of captive-bred offspring of legally collected native species. Naturally, California laws are completely insane--they prohibit captive propagation of all but a couple of native reptile species.
I'd have to look up the specific laws of each one to be certain.

As I said, I had the animals over a decade ago, so laws MIGHT have changed. And they appeared in a pet store in Michigan, so they most likely came through one of the larger wholesalers.
These animals can also be found in Utah, apparently.
http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r657/r657-053.htm

There's a lot of virtually impenetrable legal jargon going on there, but I can at least say that you can collect some animals, captive-breed them, and sell the offspring, though you might need some sort of licensing to do so.
The Desert Night lizard is listed as Controlled, in Utah, not prohibited...what that means, I haven't the endurance to try to dig out. <G>

The shrieking headache one may acquire while looking up state regulations on reptile collecting, propagating, and export isn't taken on lightly. <G> I did the whole thing for my own State (Wyoming..which has very few such laws), not sure I'm willing to go through all of that quite so thoroughly for any others.

Found this (for Nevada):
"The state's desert habitats are well suited to the 54 native reptile species. Thirty-six species are allowed to be collected commercially with a permit from NDOW. Commercial collectors provide reports on the number of reptiles collected."

The Desert Night Lizard does not appear to be listed as Protected in Nevada. Commercial collection of unprotected species is allowed with a proper permit.
By no means is it a certainty that they can be collected in Nevada for commercial sale, but it appears that it's a reasonable possibility, so there you go.
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:9U02WtIbtFcJ:ndow.org/about/license/pdf/inst04/comcollect_unprotected.pdf Nevada reptiles unprotected collected&hl=en

Night Lizards may not be sold in or from California per state law. I do not agree with your comment that “Naturally, California laws are completely insane.” I think in some areas they are better than many states. I know many herpers who agree with me on this. Commercial collectors have in the past done great damage to local populations of particular species. This problem is compounded by the fact that habitats are less continuous than they were in the past. Conservation of native species is much more important than the preservation of private “commercial” endeavors. Within the large population of people in the reptile hobby there is a significant amount of unethical people. If laws were adhered to more consistently there would be fewer restrictions. I am also an advocate for laws against using wild caught herps as food items. This also leads to over collecting and some individuals are “trading” large numbers of wild caught food items. The reptile community simply does not police itself and wildlife enforcement agencies are faced with many difficult challenges in doing so. This is why regulations become understandably strict or “insane.”

In Nevada, my state, a commercial license costs over a hundred dollars and the state has only issued a few. You must be a state resident to get one. The individuals who have obtained them are dealing with money making species and not species with low market appeal.

Utah prohibits the sale of native species except for the hand full of species designated as controlled species. These require a license called “certificate of registration”. Animals in this category may be imported and bred for commercial use but the commercial collection of them is still illegal. Night Lizards are in this category but people willing to get a commercial license to breed a commercial species are unlikely to work with night lizards. These lizards are not wide spread in the state. The subspecies addressed by this thread is barely found in Utah at all.

Arizona prohibits the sale of all native species and their progeny. Legally collected and possessed animals may be given away as a gift.

This covers all the states encompassing the range of Xantusia vigilis and its subspecies. You will not find them legally for sale in California or Arizona and are unlikely to find a lawful sale in Utah or Nevada. You probably have a better chance of winning a lottery than you have in finding a legal dealer in Utah. This does not mean you will not find them for sale illegally somewhere as illegal activity is quite common, granted it is often unintentional.

Probably the best chance someone has in obtaining these lizards from a dealer is to find one of the few individuals in Nevada in possession of a commercial license and ask them to collect them for you while they are on their usual rounds. I have considered getting a license in order to provide a few such species to interested collectors elsewhere in the country. My biggest problem is not wanting to deal with shipping.

Randy
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Firehouse Herps

Whatever you might say about the protection California offers for wildlife, or for the need for it, there is no logical reason to prohibit the captive breeding of native species within the State...none at all. You can keep them...but not breed them? Makes absolutely no sense. It's not the only California law that makes no sense. Now, Wyoming has a few quirky ones, but they still make more sense than that. (You can keep any reptile in Wyoming, though some require permits--except for black mambas, you can't keep them here, lol).

What about New Mexico? Xantusia vigilis is found there, too, isn't it?

I believe California laws are very logical, certainly not perfect, but logical. If the laws err it is on the side of conservation. You can get permits to breed most native species that have market appeal. The problem with other species is simple. People can get breeding permits and then keep or sell wild caught animals beyond legal bag limits. They can claim they are captive bred if caught. How does an agent prove otherwise? . There is no shortage of unethical people willing to do this. I agree that this punishes the honest and ethical individual but that is a small price to pay. Give Wyoming time, they will catch up with national standards as far as reptile legislations go sooner or later. It is common for states with small populations, low resources, and little herp related political activity to be "behind the times". Laws are getting more and more conservative across the country and will continue to do so. The Reptile community shares a huge part of the blame for this. Like I said in my previous post, as a community we do a very poor job policing ourselves. Illegal activities have become a pet peeve of mine. I have had many people contact me offering me illegal Garter snakes, Mountain Kings etc. I will educate the novice and other well meaning herpers as to unlawful behavior but I have also turned in multiple individuals in various states because they knowingly disregarded applicable laws.

Xantusia vigilis does not occur in New Mexico. There is a subspecies further south in Mexico and they also occur in Baja.

Randy
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Firehouse Herps

Wyoming is not "behind the times", lol...the reality is that there is simply a tendency here not to pass laws that aren't needed.
Believe me...they aren't needed here. This is not a herp hot-spot...the current protection, small as it is, is more than adequate. People just don't go herp collecting here...

Vast expanses of trackless prairie...finding herps is like finding a needle in a haystack.
Any individual that manages it isn't going to have much effect on the overall population of the animals, out here...there is a LOT of habitat.

Another possibility for acquiring Xantusia is that some individual out there might have some that they have had for a while, and they might be willing to sell them. We do not know the lifespan of this species, so far as I've been able to determine.