Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello to all and thanks for your help.

If I put a fan in my refridgerator along with the ceramic element and plug them both into the thermostat will this cycle the fan on and off as well?

thanks Paul

Yes it will. You want the fan on a separate circuit.

George Knaack
GLK HERP

>>Hello to all and thanks for your help.
>>
>>If I put a fan in my refridgerator along with the ceramic element and plug them both into the thermostat will this cycle the fan on and off as well?
>>
>>thanks Paul
>>

Paul,

Good luck with it.

-----
Joe Yakelis
HellFire Reptiles

Hi Joe,

I too am looking into converting a standup freezer into an incubator. I have not started experimenting with it yet, but figured I will "have to" have a fan in it due to it's height (approx. 3ft). I do not know what the temp. gradient will be from top to bottom without the fan. I will be using a Helix thermostat, not sure what for a heating element, 5 cubic foot upright freezer maintained at 90 deg. F in a room approx. 70 deg. F. Are you able to maintain a uniform incubation temp. from top to bottom without a fan in this type of situation?

Thanks,
Glenn

>>Hi Joe,
>>
>>I too am looking into converting a standup freezer into an incubator. I have not started experimenting with it yet, but figured I will "have to" have a fan in it due to it's height (approx. 3ft). I do not know what the temp. gradient will be from top to bottom without the fan. I will be using a Helix thermostat, not sure what for a heating element, 5 cubic foot upright freezer maintained at 90 deg. F in a room approx. 70 deg. F. Are you able to maintain a uniform incubation temp. from top to bottom without a fan in this type of situation?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Glenn

Hey Glenn,

No matter what, the larger in height you go the more difficult it's going to be to regulate. There's nothing wrong with multiple smaller incubators instead of one big one as well. You may have to experiment with it a little bit, as every application's going to vary. But as long as you're building it before you actually need it, you should be able to work out the bugs. To lessen the "bugs," think horizontal and not vertical. Just my thoughts on it. Good luck.

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Joe Yakelis
HellFire Reptiles

Hey Joe,

Thanks for the info.! One concern I have (that no one seems to be able to advise me on) is the length of 11" Flexwatt to go with, if I was to use it. I realize there are some variables, but knowing the freezer is 5 cubic ft, extremely well insulated, controlled by a Helix, and possibly a small fan running 24/7, someone must be able to recommend "X" amount of feet to accomplish the job without over or underpowering the Flexwatt.

Thanks again,
Glenn

>>Hey Joe,
>>
>>Thanks for the info.! One concern I have (that no one seems to be able to advise me on) is the length of 11" Flexwatt to go with, if I was to use it. I realize there are some variables, but knowing the freezer is 5 cubic ft, extremely well insulated, controlled by a Helix, and possibly a small fan running 24/7, someone must be able to recommend "X" amount of feet to accomplish the job without over or underpowering the Flexwatt.
>>
>>Thanks again,
>>Glenn

Glenn,

I mentioned it above and it's mentioned below as well - think horizontal (shorter/wider) and not vertical in the future. That's the main drawback of using anything upright. But a 3' height isn't that bad and I think you could get away without a fan if you experiment with the location of the tape a little bit. No matter how you set it up, chances are it's going to need tweaked at least slightly in one way or another to get it right. And once you get it right, build more of them.
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Joe Yakelis
HellFire Reptiles

Hey Joe,

Thanks again, I was certainly thinking that underpowering a length of tape is better than overpowering one. I will have to think about this a little more. Maybe I am better off using one of the melamine cages rather than the freezer. One thing that bothered me a bit about the freezer is that the interior width and depth are only about 16 or 17 inches (small shelves). I think I will simply experiment with it and see how it goes.

Thanks again for your help,
Glenn

To clarify under vs overpowering...
I would not want to make a foot of flex work it's but off to keep the incubator warm when a few feet may do it much better.

Posted by: SnakeSmith at Fri Mar 18 05:34:52 2005 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Hey Joe,

Thanks again, I was certainly thinking that underpowering a length of tape is better than overpowering one. I will have to think about this a little more. Maybe I am better off using one of the melamine cages rather than the freezer. One thing that bothered me a bit about the freezer is that the interior width and depth are only about 16 or 17 inches (small shelves). I think I will simply experiment with it and see how it goes.

Thanks again for your help,
Glenn
>>
To clarify under vs overpowering...
>>I would not want to make a foot of flex work it's but off to keep the incubator warm when a few feet may do it much better.

Thanks for clarifying Glenn. My fault for reading one thing and thinking another.

That's why I've always had a hard time using the smaller ones. There never seems to be enough room for more than 1-2 small egg boxes. Experiment away Glenn. That's the name of the game.

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Joe Yakelis
HellFire Reptiles

I have had very bad news....Maybe.... Here is MY deal.... I built a upright Freezer Incubator... I had a Helix DBS 1000 hooked up to a Pro heat panel, I had No problem when the incubator was empty....temp was 89 degrees all the time...with no problems ...I set the eggs boxes in the incubator several days before my first clutch was laid...I had the temp probe mounted above the heat panel about 1 1/2 ft to try and get a more steady temp. Well I put my eggs and the helix was reading 89 degrees and most of the other thermostats read close to the same so I didn't think I had anything to worry about. Well Not true.... I noticed the closest egg box to the heat panel that the eggs were denting a little and I had 91 - 100% humidity, so I knew that was not the problem....So I decided to temp gun the eggs themselves, and guess what the eggs ranged from 91 - 95 degrees but they are still good eggs and the have been at them temps I am assuming the full 27 days that they were in incubation. So far they are still showing blood veins and are still looking good..... So I have my fingers crossed that they will be ok.... Needless to say I added a FAN to the incubator and everything is very nice in the incubator I even have a probe in the eggs box with the eggs... still around 90, the box stays around 89 give or take a degree.....PUT a FAN in LARGE INCUBATORS. My humidity is still 91 - 100%.... Thanks David

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1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)
1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
0.1 Spider(04)(RDR)
3.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
0.1 Yellow belly(unproven)(04)
1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
25 Normal adult females
60 04 females
15 normal mixed 03's
20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's

>>I have had very bad news....Maybe.... Here is MY deal.... I built a upright Freezer Incubator... I had a Helix DBS 1000 hooked up to a Pro heat panel, I had No problem when the incubator was empty....temp was 89 degrees all the time...with no problems ...I set the eggs boxes in the incubator several days before my first clutch was laid...I had the temp probe mounted above the heat panel about 1 1/2 ft to try and get a more steady temp. Well I put my eggs and the helix was reading 89 degrees and most of the other thermostats read close to the same so I didn't think I had anything to worry about. Well Not true.... I noticed the closest egg box to the heat panel that the eggs were denting a little and I had 91 - 100% humidity, so I knew that was not the problem....So I decided to temp gun the eggs themselves, and guess what the eggs ranged from 91 - 95 degrees but they are still good eggs and the have been at them temps I am assuming the full 27 days that they were in incubation. So far they are still showing blood veins and are still looking good..... So I have my fingers crossed that they will be ok.... Needless to say I added a FAN to the incubator and everything is very nice in the incubator I even have a probe in the eggs box with the eggs... still around 90, the box stays around 89 give or take a degree.....PUT a FAN in LARGE INCUBATORS. My humidity is still 91 - 100%.... Thanks David
>>
>>-----
>>1.0 Pied(04)(RDR)
>>1.0 Albino(04)(RDR)
>>0.1 Spider(04)(RDR)
>>3.2 Pastels(03's)(04's)(ASF,Graziani,Bell lines)
>>0.1 Yellow belly(unproven)(04)
>>1.3 Yellow belly(unproven)(02,03,04's)
>>2.0 100% HET CLOWN(04's)(MHMR)
>>3.3 100% het albinos(03's)(high contrast bell line)
>>0.1 poss Het Albino(03's)
>>2.0 100% het pieds(03's)(Vin Russo,CRE)
>>0.2 100% het pieds(03's)(04's)(RDR,TWL)
>>1.2 Poss het pieds(03's)(PETE KAHL)
>>2.1 Poss het pieds(00's)(01's) hoping to get PIEDS this year(Vin Russo, Pete Kahl)
>>25 Normal adult females
>>60 04 females
>>15 normal mixed 03's
>>20 Assorted weird ball pythons 04's

David,

I'm glad to hear you've worked out your bugs with the addition of the fan, and it sounds like it should do well for you from here on out. But it sounds like most of your problem was the location of the heater from the get-go, if you weren't going to use a fan from the start. You were definitely on the right track setting it up and running it early. But things change as you add to it - as you unfortunately found out the hard way. Good luck with it.
-----
Joe Yakelis
HellFire Reptiles

the problem with this design is you have a very hot, condensed heat source (heat panel)... you should be staying away from heat panels for an incubator.. lower heat heating devices such as heat tape and distributing it more evenly would be MUCH better. I talked to Bob Pound of ProProdcuts about using radiant heat panels for my vertical incubator and they strongly recommend AGAINST using them in incubators. They will not work well. They will bake eggs that are close to the panel. They project a lot of heat and you will have problems with the eggs on the first shelf on the bottom. Also, they could break if water was to spill in the panel. They are not designed to be install on the bottom facing up, but rather on the top facing down. When used properly, water can not be spilled in the panel. There should not be a fire hazard, but it could ruin the panel. I've opted to use heat tape in mine instead of a radiant heat panel.

Good luck,
Bristen.

Hello everyone,

I too have a concern as to what heat source is best for a home-made incubator. It makes sense to use a heat source that cools quickly like heat tape, so you don't get an even warmer temp. a few minutes after the thermostat shuts off the heat source. As I contact various suppliers of heat sources, they all seem to "not" recommend the various types of heat source they sell. Whether it is Flexwatt tape, heating elements as seen in Hovabators, or light bulbs/ceramic bulbs. Does anyone know what is the safest heat source?

Thanks,
Glenn

Heat tape works fine as do heating elements and any NON-Radiant heat source when connected to a proportional thermostat. Using a proportional thermostat is the only way to go. Current trickles to the heat tape as as opposed to full on or full off with a analog thermostat. The proportional thermostat reduces the spikes in temps. As a final note I would strongly recommend including a fan run off a separate circut no matter what source of heat you use. Any fan will work, but a couple of the fans like those used in computers work well. Mount one toward the top and a second toward the bottom. Do NOT run the fan off the same circut as the heat souce with a proportional thermostat. The trickle current from the proportional thermostat can burn out the fan and is a fire hazard. Also the trickle current most often will not turn the fan fast enough to sufficiently circulate the air.

For anyone planning to use a fan in their incubator. It is NOT advisable to use a proportional thermostat for the fan. This can burn out the fan and is a fire hazard.
You can put the fan and the heating element on the same circut and run them off an analog thermostat, but the downside with this is that if the incubator is large the fan will only run when the heating element is on and there can be temperature gradients from top to bottom during periods the fan is off.

It is a much better option to run the heating element off of a proportional thermostat, and then run a variable speed fan off a separate circut. This way the fan can run all of the time at the lowest speed that insures adequate circulation and even temperatures throughout the incubator and the proportional thermostat will adjust the current to the heating element to maintain the proper temperature. I use two large incubators this way and I can easily maintain constant temps with a maximum variation of less than half a degree. This set up allows MUCH tighter temperature control than with an analog thermostat which is either completely on or completely off. Variations of 2-3 degrees tend to be the norm for this type of set up.

If you're a fan of "unbreakable low tech" here's an idea for your incubator; use closed containers (could be anything really),filled with water to stabilize temperatures in your incubator instead of using circulation fans. Water warms up and cools down much slower than air and so it keeps the tempearatures in your incubator more stable throughout. Has worked great for me, and lasts a long time.

Rob Reiding.

Hey Rob,

I agree that the use of any sort of solid or liquid will allow less temp. fluctuation than air itself, but regardless of what is in the incubator, the top section of the incubator will always be warmer. The only way around this is to physically force the warmer air down, mixing it with the cooler air, thereby eliminating any thermal gradients.

Thanks,
Glenn

Hi Glenn;

I totally agree with you and to compensate for that I have been using relatively low and wide ("home made" incubators versus tall incubators.
This is something that has worked well for me and I just thought it would be nice to share that with others.

Rob Reiding.

Hey Rob,

I'm really thinking wider is better! I have some nice 4x2x2 melamine cages i'm not using and was going to insulate one of them with rigid foam and convert it to an incubator. The only reason I am thinking about using the freezer is, it died on me just after a year old (the warrantee period)and I thought it would make a great looking incubator, being brand new looking with plastic coated wire racks already built in. Don't know what to do, but I have all summer and fall to get it done.

Thanks for your replies,
Glenn

Low incubators have worked well for me, but if you already have the freezer, like in your case, why throw it away. Don't you hate that when things break right when the warranty runs out! Maybe heat tape or heat cable all around the bottom, sides, and top together with two smaller fans instead of one larger one would work well? In case one of the fans breakes down there will still be the other one. That would probably give pretty even temperatures from top to bottom.

Rob Reiding.