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This boa looks hypo for sure, and most definately screams as a pastel.... Has anyone ever gone to the Harlequin boa site??

http://harlequinboa.com/htm/available.html

Check out the History....They were thought to be Pastels at the beginning, but are now in another class, and I see why. These babies as normals looked like hypos at birth, and then within an hour or so they turned gray in color....The Hypos of the litter did not turn a gray color. Then the baby pastels? started turning color over time. They are really starting to appear as hypos and I really believe they are Harlequins.

The Origional Harlequin boas were discovered in a pet shop somewhere, so why not stumble upon others out there??

Here is my question for everyone out there...If they act in color to the Harlequin boas, but are not of the same line of origional Harlequin boas....are they Harlequin boas?? Or do they have to be classed as a new line or a new name??

IT would be great to hear what Brendan and Tim Magee have to say about this subject.

Joe Rollo you also have Harlequins...what do you think about this also?

Thanks Andy

>>This boa looks hypo for sure, and most definately screams as a pastel.... Has anyone ever gone to the Harlequin boa site??
>>
>>http://harlequinboa.com/htm/available.html
>>
>>Check out the History....They were thought to be Pastels at the beginning, but are now in another class, and I see why. These babies as normals looked like hypos at birth, and then within an hour or so they turned gray in color....The Hypos of the litter did not turn a gray color. Then the baby pastels? started turning color over time. They are really starting to appear as hypos and I really believe they are Harlequins.
>>
>>The Origional Harlequin boas were discovered in a pet shop somewhere, so why not stumble upon others out there??
>>
>>Here is my question for everyone out there...If they act in color to the Harlequin boas, but are not of the same line of origional Harlequin boas....are they Harlequin boas?? Or do they have to be classed as a new line or a new name??
>>
>>IT would be great to hear what Brendan and Tim Magee have to say about this subject.
>>
>>Joe Rollo you also have Harlequins...what do you think about this also?
>>
>>Thanks Andy
>>

I figure Tim,Brendan or even Joe probably have better pics these but I feel these pics are good enough to get the discussion you are starting going!An I am no epert but in my opinion that is not a Harlequin Hypo!Eric[Hypoboa] Like I said above these are my opinions but hopefully Tim or Brendan can take over this discussion!Enjoy the pics!Eric
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E&C's Exotic House of Reptiles

Eric the pic I posted is one of the normals from the litter! You posted your Harlequin Hypo...that is not the class I am talking about. If you go to their sites, you will see the normal Harlequins. Thanks Andy

>>Eric the pic I posted is one of the normals from the litter! You posted your Harlequin Hypo...that is not the class I am talking about. If you go to their sites, you will see the normal Harlequins. Thanks Andy
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E&C's Exotic House of Reptiles

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E&C's Exotic House of Reptiles

Andy,

Did you animals come from animals descended from Harlequin stock? Well if not then they are not Harlequins. What is so hard to understand? The same thing has happened with Ronne Pastels and Kahl Jungles. If animals ARE NOT from proven lines or certain lineages then they are not those respected animals. I do not care how much they resemble the animals they ARE NOT the same. Simple one would thing but all the time I see people wanting there animals to be something they are not.....One final correction, the Harlequins were not found in a pet shop they were obtained at a reptile show by one of the Magee brothers.
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Russ Lockenwitz
RL Reptiles
http://www.visioncages.com

If you were thinking I was calling the other pic I posted a Hypo...I was not. Here is the Hypo litter mate. Andy

I would say that Harlequins are variable in appearance, and there is a chance of someone purchasing a normal appearing baby from Harlequin Blood and producing their own...

but I don't think this hypo resembles the Harlequins i've experienced, and to prematurely label it as such would be similar to calling them Jungles.

You may have stumbled on some good pastels or just have good blood in one of the parents.
The hypo may have been the 'ugly runt' of an outstanding litter, or the normal could've been the 'ugly runt' out of a phenomenal pastel litter. Most big breeders won't waste time on explaining this since they would just move them out quickly at a lower price.

Do you have pics of both parents?
From where did you purchase the adults?
Who produced the adults and how?

Most of my Salmon Harlequins look quite normal in appearance, meaning they do not have an extravagant aberrancies, leading some to believe their hypos or samons may be similar or of the same origin.

I assure you there are many traits that seperate these animals from any other out there.

If you know who sold you and/or produced the adults, you can ask Tim Magee if he's ever sold "normals" from the Harlequin line to them.

Just my $.02

Take care, Bci Joe
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

This is the Mom of the litter, She is the so called normal. Here is a pick while she was gravid. Andy

.
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Thanks for the comments Joe, she is alot nicer when not so dark. She is in shed again, or I would try and get more pics. Have a great day!

Here is Dad, He is a Rich Ihle Salmon boa.

Well, he's a Rich Ihle Salmon!
SalmonBoa.com has amazing Salmons that are very light and throw even lighter babies..
He coined his line by making these lighter cleaner animals.. hence, he's been doing this on purpose for many years now..

my point is, looks like you scored on the female, and have an excellent male, and together, they threw some extra nice hypos and commons!

I would still be very happy with that!

Hey man, i've learned alot from a saying I heard long ago.. it goes like this:

"The Hen is the wisest of all creation, for she never crackles until after the egg is laid."

Hope all goes well.. hold on to those, like I said, and wait for their colors to come out more..

Take care, Joe

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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

This is the dame to my first litter.

What I call her is a very nice "Pastel" or just a high orange boa. She is about seven foot in the photo and has retained her color since she was a baby. I bought her at a local pet shop and was produced by some local guy who sold them to the pet store. He only produced this one litter-his female died. This was about 3 and a half years ago. As a sidenote I only paid $100 bucks for her when she was about 4 months old. I believe that there are many different reasons that these traits show up. It is not reasonable to assume that genetic traits such as "pastel", "jungle", "harlequin", etc. only occur out of one individuals collection. I feel that the "genetic" traits have been here all along--in many, many, peoples collections for generations. It is the individuals that had enough foresight to prove out the traits they noticed who have the right to name what they have. It is through their persistance and attention that these traits were named, and rightfully so I may add. I guess what I am trying to say is this:

It it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might be a duck, but then again it could be a goose, but it is probably not a dog or a cat!!

Hope that makes sense. Bottom line there is no way to determine what you have without breeding trials--and that takes time, time, time!! We should not have to feel like we need to label our boas. Represent them as what they are, provide pictures and if people like the look and it appears to be genetically linked people will buy your snakes at the prices that they deserve to be at. I think I have talked enough for now.

See ya
Bob

Thanks Bob, I do agree with you. These babies were sure doing alot of quacking!!LOL! Hey Bob, that female really does look like mine...or mine like yours...It's no wonder we had some smokin' babies form those big girls.

Breeding trials are in order...just thought it was time to stir the board a little! Have a great day all. Andy

np

What I call her is a very nice "Pastel" or just a high orange boa. She is about seven foot in the photo and has retained her color since she was a baby. I bought her at a local pet shop and was produced by some local guy who sold them to the pet store. He only produced this one litter-his female died. This was about 3 and a half years ago. As a sidenote I only paid $100 bucks for her when she was about 4 months old. I believe that there are many different reasons that these traits show up. It is not reasonable to assume that genetic traits such as "pastel", "jungle", "harlequin", etc. only occur out of one individuals collection. I feel that the "genetic" traits have been here all along--in many, many, peoples collections for generations. It is the individuals that had enough foresight to prove out the traits they noticed who have the right to name what they have. It is through their persistance and attention that these traits were named, and rightfully so I may add. I guess what I am trying to say is this:

It it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might be a duck, but then again it could be a goose, but it is probably not a dog or a cat!!

Hope that makes sense. Bottom line there is no way to determine what you have without breeding trials--and that takes time, time, time!! We should not have to feel like we need to label our boas. Represent them as what they are, provide pictures and if people like the look and it appears to be genetically linked people will buy your snakes at the prices that they deserve to be at. I think I have talked enough for now.

See ya
Bob

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>> Next Message: RE: Hey Bob.... - ajfreptiles, Fri Mar 18 16:18:28 2005

gone. And the previous post showed up isntead.

K...

I basicly agree with Bob, just wanted to clarify a few key points.

Pastel, Harlequin, Jungle are easy to intermingle and confuse.

Pastel is a phenotype determined by a subjective level of reduced black. Color plays no role in what is and isnt a pastel. Developed pastel bloodlines, such as pastel dreams, is a different story. They have argueably the best colombian boa color there is. But the label "Pastel" merely means a specific level of reduced black, having good color means nothing in regards to pastel or not. (for more info on pastels go here: http://www.theboaforum.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=boapics1;action=display;num=1050880714 )

Harlequin and Jungles are bloodline specific boas. To have a legitimate harlequin or jungle it must be known without a doubt that the boa came from those bloodlines. It doesnt matter how close the boa looks or how similiar the genetics work. The only thing that could be concluded from that is that they possibly are the same line, keyword: Possibly.

When we represent a boa we are saying "I know 100% for sure this boa is what I am saying it is". Therfore possibly doesnt work.

After all, it could be a goose .

Take Care,
-Ryan

I was lucky and got a great pair from Brendan - one Harlequin and from a different litter a Hypo. This was a few years ago and this year they have been together and the Hypo female looks gravid. Now for healthy Hypo Harlequin babies.

Anyway, I just wanted to post a non hypo Harlequin.

Here is Harley with the Hypo I got. Both outstanding in my opinion.

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Thanks
Shawn Morelan
www.SouthernBoids.com
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Signature file edited; [phw 9/26/04]

Probably not from harlequin line.

Harlequins are without a doubt bloodline specific, no debate there. Defenitley not a phenotype that can be defined by certain degrees of specific traits (like pastel for example). Theres such a wide range of variation within them on so many levels.

I think the only time to even consider it a possibility would be if there were many harlequin-like (which is a wide range) abberant boas in at least two litters that resembled and developed very closely to harlequins. And of course I would never call them harlequins regardless unless I could prove they originated from the same line.

Since we're talking about harlequins

Here is my female harlequin at 4 months of age.

Here she is at 8 months of age (taken a month ago). Her color just keeps getting better and better:

Whoops!

Harlequin at 4 months of age:

Harlequin at 8 months of age:

YOU NEED TO CALL THIS # 252-235-5249 OR SEND ME YOUR # AND I'LL CALL YOU...BRENDAN

Wouldn't you rather them be something new that you created from your own bloodline. There are so many people dying to have there boas be Jungles and Harlequins why? The only thing that can be called a Jungle or Harlequin is a boa that came from that line or is proven by breeding trials to have the exact same genetics as that line. Theres no need for discussion thats just how it is. Andy, I would rather go through my own breeding trials and have my own line if I were you. Even if there just nice pastel hypos thats still great. Be grateful for what you have. They are some sweet boas by the way. Vinnie

P.S. I should have my Hypo Harlequin from Brendan by next week I'll be sure to post pics )

Thanks man, I just needed the understandings this board has givin me. Thanks All. Andy