Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi. I had two American bullfrogs I'd raised since they were froglets. I'd bought them at a petshop that catered to fish hobbyists who wanted to feed the froglets to their big Oscars and what not. So I bought two last August of so and took them home.

They grew fine and one turned out to be a male, the other female. They could've been the perfect pair for me, the male even starting to bellow and at times mounting the female. Then I had to let them go.

This I did in February. It was a rainy day, about in the 50's. I just wonder if you all think they would've survived. I did let them go on a sunny day, about in the 60's. I let them go in a nearby pond, a place where they couldn't make much of an environmental impact.

I'd heard that if it gets below freezing they could die, but this was in Taiwan. It doesn't freeze there. What would the frogs do? Hibernate, or just wait it out in semi-slumber?

I wanted to keep them but had to move. Thought they would've fared better there free. I just hope I haven't any way jeopardized their existence. I did let one bullfrog go under the same circumstance a few years ago, and coming back in the summer, had seen it live and well.

I'm not even sure where to begin with this....

Bullfrogs are known to eat anything smaller than they are and are implicated in assisting with the decline of native species of multiple genera.
In addition are you aware of the chytid problem? This fungus is also causing or assisting in the decline of many species of anurans and can be spread by bullfrogs as bullfrogs can be inapparent carriers of the disease.

Rescuing an animal only to release it into a nonnative enviroment is the worst kind of irresponsibility. You did not do anyone a favor.

Ed

Your release of those frogs is criminal. I can only hope that something ate them or they died before they reproduced. You should be ashamed of yourself VERY ashamed.

No reason to put this person down or shun them for releasing the frogs. It's obviously upsetting and was a very bad choice on their part, but there is no reason to make them feel worse about something they now already probably feel bad about. I would assume if they had known about the risks related to releasing captive bull frogs into the wild they probably wouldn't have done it. The original poster was well-intended, they just didn't understand the significance of what they were doing. Hopefully others will read this thread and it won't happen again,
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Devin Edmonds
devin@amphibiancare.com
www.amphibiancare.com

This person has been posting on here for a while, and I swear at one time I spent some time explaining the problems of releasing bullfrogs in Taiwan to this person. At the very least, they should have been able to pick up on some of these issues. This person SHOULD be made to feel bad about this situation, there are so many levels of irresponsibility here.
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

No, Cochichine, I don't feel bad. I DO think that you have the wrong person in mind too, since I HAVEN'T been posting here for a while and had had no intention whatsoever about letting them go. The issue you may be thinking about has to do with possibly one comment I'd made about seeing a bullfrog in a city pond. Then you'd mentioned, I think, What kind of bullfrog is it?

You'd forgotten that I'm in Asia. bullfrogs are eaten. It's an island, quite small, and the venue where I'd let them go was COMPLETELY ISOLATED. Moreover, I want to say this.

The state of the bullfrog is not in any way positive. I would not have given these frogs, too, to the nearby restaurant. I couldn't take them on the plane with me, and the poor creatures wouldn't have lasted in a pet shop.

Now, you may come from the West. You've never been to Taiwan/Asia and haven't seen the iguanas, the alligator snapping turtles. You haven't seen the African horned frogs, the gekos. You haven't seen the pet trade here, the coral snakes from Florida. No really, your environmental sensitivity doesn't make me feel bad, unless you want to discount the fact that many, like you, are contributing to this exotic pet trade by cashing in on it and I've taken it upon myself to release a couple of 50 cents bullfrogs, supposedly a frog that's ubiquitous.

Do you think the environmental ministry over here is not aware of this possible destruction due to these frogs? Am I not? Then you figure in pollution and over population. There's no chance this frog is going to make an impact.

Likewise, you haven't seen the overwhelming amounts of regulations in Taiwan in regard to any pets, and I hardly think that petshops raising tadpoles is in any way a great concern, though you jump on the green-valley-purge-the-Earth-of-released-reptiles campaign all the while contributing to the demise of such species by buying those exotics back home.

I saved a couple, and I hope they thrive, just to prove a point that no one's going to take my native frog and make it a source of food for their fish.

So now your telling us that you did it to prove a point? Are you god that you can say that your positive that they will have no impact? Perhaps some aquatic ecosystem expert that nobody has ever heard of before? You are still wrong in doing what you did irrespective of what your delusional mind might be telling you.

"It's an island, quite small, and the venue where I'd let them go was COMPLETELY ISOLATED."

The smaller the area, the quicker there affect...
1 frog 1 frog= up to 4,000 eggs, which turn into tadpoles carrying all sorts of nasty things as Ed stated, which then turn into food for a whole bunch of critters, transfering all the nasties from one critter to the next...

"1 frog 1 frog= up to 4,000 eggs"
That should have have read one frog PLUS one frog

I can only wonder why someone would choose to do this! Bullfrogs are native to certain aprts of the US... not Asia! Granted, I am not up on my Asian herpetology, and there could be B. frogs living there wild, since I know they raise them there for human consumption. But I think it's a horrible thing, to release any amphibian to begin with, after it's been in captivity. Releasing one into a nonnative habitat... well you all know my thoughts on that.
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4.1 Ball pythons
1.0 Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1 albino Cranwell's horned frog
1.1 breeding Clawed frogs
1.0 black kittycat
3.1 Oscar cichlids
Also have fancy goldfish, african cichlids, and rats. And 1 Paint horse mare

hahaha...bullfrogs are EVERYWHERE in Taiwan...if they're not invading native habitats, then they're being raised in large numbers for food. Just like red-eared sliders, they've pretty much colonized the entire island.

If they survive and breed your apparent no environmental impact could lead to no native species left, since the bullfrogs will eat anything they can fit in their mouths.
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theamphibianboard/

WOw, I know this was done with the best of intentions, but... holy crap this can be scary. If this were in australia you'd be on the chopping block. A breeding pair yet.... what can I say, I"m speechless...

K, i'm back, I hope this guy learned from this thread, as well as every passerby who may have the same in mind. If any questions about why it is a poor choice then please post BEFORE you do it and you may get a more clear, less appaulled response.

You mentioned Australia, isnt there a big problem with non-native species of amphibian spreading across the country? The Cane Toad?

Yup, that's why Australia came to mind, because they already know the devestation non-native frogs can cause. The cane-toad is a different species, but definetly it's size and aggression cause the same problems as bullfrogs. Western Canada is also having a huge fight with bullfrogs, and is going so far as draining some ponds to eliminate the frogs before they spread to nearby lake systems.

The site was well chosen,surrounding by sprawling metropolis and nothing but roads. Yeah, I polluted steam did run alongside the pond, but I can assure you. I'd seen these frogs in city ponds and if they were a great concern, they would not have been selling froglets at the petshops.

I did consider this, AND THE FROGS!! There was really no where else for them to go. These comments are not really taking into consideration the welfare of frog hobbyists or those who care about bullfrogs.

Yes, I do care about other frogs too. This release, however, was not in the countryside or near any major river accept an estuary about two miles away, and one that was too salty to have any impact.

Perhaps there were, and are, other native species of frogs. I realized this. Like I said, however, it was a release in a city metropolis. I just wonder if they survived, and want to know if any of you know about the possibility of this being so, due to the cooler temps. It didn't get below freezing though.

Bullfrogs can travel more than several miles from one site to another over a total land area as long as damp retreates are available. They know which directions to travel as they can see the polarized light reflecting off of the water surface. This is how they colonize watersheds on their own.

Depending on the salinity content, this estuary may not be a barrier to bullfrogs an dmay enhance their ability to spread.

They sell bullfrogs because people want the tadpoles not because they are safe for release. By the same logic, the fact that I can buy a 15 foot burmese python would mean that it is okay to release in the local park.

You have also completely ignored the disease issue and that bullfrogs are known carriers/vectors for ranaviruses, iridioviruses and chytrid all of which are either implicated or are direct causes in either extinction of local populations or wide spread extinctions of amphibians (and in the case of some of the viruses, fish and reptiles).

Ed