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Has anyone heard of HL's eating berries of the Lycium Andersonii Desert Thorn bush? I had a friend ask me about this today out of the blue so I did some searching on the net to see what it was. Turns out that this is a plan my wife and I saw yesterday while out hiking. We just happened to bring one of the berries and a small branch back to the house to identify it.

Funny thing is, I was out hiking late last Sept up a dry creek bed and ran across what I thought was HL scat (Solare habitat). But it had seeds in it. I was pretty sure that it was HL but brushed it off at the time as my overactive imagination.
Well, I went back up that same creek today and found that it was rampant with desert thorn on each side and there were berries on the bushes.
Interesting thing is this plant may have some medicinal qualities that reduce the effects of stinging insects. It may also have some toxins, and this is my speculation, that may have an effect on internal parasites???

My friend says that Dr. Montanucci documented this in one of his studies (Platyrhinos I believe). I seem to recall this being mentioned but can't find the particular article.
Anyone have any clue?
Cheers!
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www.phrynosoma.com

You know Cable,

thats an interesting question I can only vouch for one of my platyrhinos eating a Mallow flower once. I'm not sure if it really meant to do this, as the wind was blowing it around, and it had a small bee in it. The bee was intended for the Zebra-tail I had, and the flower for the Desert Iguana, but the HL ate it. Don't know if that means anything to you, but thought I'd share just the same.....

regards,
-Phil

Yes-I once published a paper in the Colorado Herp Society, and I had a small group of Phrynosoma Blainville, and I had them outside in a 6' x 3 ' cage which they did quite well in. One day I put some sweet alyssum (small white flowers) that I picked out of our garden in the front yard, and they were covered with small insects so I thought maybe they would like the insects. Come to find out both of my males walked up to the handfull of flowers and began tearing off the little flowers by shaking their heads and eating it. My son was there as well and witnessed this. Also a couple weeks later, just for the heck of it, I took some green leaf lettuce tops and threw them into the cage, they were not broken inot small pieces, and several of the horned lizards came over and tore off pieces of the lettuce and ate it. I also was raising a small group of neonates that were wild caught of the same specie and were about 1 inch to one and 1/4 inch pretty much newborns, and I took some green leaf lettuce and cut it up in very fine fine pieces, and sprikled it on the bottom of the cage and several of the nonates ate this. I reported this to Lester and he said he could not duplicate this in Blainville. But I actually did this again with another small group of neonates, and got the same response. So I believe there must be some plant material whether it's replenishing water for hydration or part of a mixed diet, it is clear to me that some species do eat greens of various types, I have identified sweet alyssum and green leaf lettuce, I would assume a dandilion would be a good candidate for consideration. I will put some in my cage for my Solares and see if they should show any interest......... By the way I later found an article of someone in Europe who was lambasting me over this subject and did everything verbally written but call me a liar. I thought that was rude, and maybe we need to check this out more with our animals. I will tell you that not every animal did eat greens, thats why I was thinking this may be a hydratiuon issue, but they seem to enjoy the flowers as if they were eating them and liked them. So thats my truthful two cents and my son can so-oborate my observations...................
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

It's in "Krotenechsen" by Baur and Montanucci.

Here is a really crappy internet translation of the statement (pg 27):

Wustenkrotenechsen P. platyrhinos from the siidlichen Nevada, whose stomach to 20-95 % with the fleshy, orange berries of the Wiistenstrauches Lycium was gefullt andersonii one, a Nachtschattengewachs. Because berries still the cups alien on were, BANTA accepts, dafi the Krotenechsen on the branches had climbed and the berries themselves had read off. In the Freilandterrarium a crown krotenechse P. could be observed coronatum, the several times one behind the other small, yellow Bliiten of a Korbbliitlers, which were certain actually fur a Wiistenleguan (Dipsosaurus dorsalis), cropped and devoured (BAUR unveroff.).

It seems to be saying the stomach content of Platyrhinos at one location was 20 to 95% Berries, that were picked off the bush by climbing DHL's.

Can anyone translate this better?

(I hope this isn't in bad form to paste here. No harm intended).

Thanks

...And thanks to Phil and Reptoman for your accounts. It's great perspective and worth looking into further.
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www.phrynosoma.com

Cable
if you can provide the original language version
of this I may be able to at least put some of the words
into a better context. I have an intermediate fluency
in German which may help. some of the untranslated words
I see may not be German...or it's spelled wrong...
or something...? the multiple "ii"'s in some of the words are not common to German and throw me off. they are more common to Dutch or Danish.

from what I can tell though:

the first word "Wustenkrotenechsen" is "Desert-Toad-Lizard"

"siidlichen" I don't know

"gefullt" is same as German for "filled"

there seems to actually be a reference to the flowering plant;(andersonii)?

"Nachtschattengewachs" literally means "night-owl" not the bird

"Freilandterrarium" must be a sanctuary of some type, it means
"free-land-terrarium"

"fur" is easy, it means "for"

but so far it looks like as you understood it, the eating of the plant material by a horned lizard is accurate.
sentence structure in Germanic and many other languages is
not the same as English...so odd as it's sounds I would have more success understanding it in the complete German.

Mick

Thanks for taking a stab at it Mick.
Here is the text:

Am verbliiff endsten ist wohl die Tatsa-che, dafi Krotenechsen manchmal auch pflanzliche Nahrung zu sich nehmen. So berichtete BANTA (1961) iiber mehrere

Wustenkrotenechsen P. platyrhinos aus dem siidlichen Nevada, deren Magen zu 20-95 % mit den fleischigen, orangeroten Beeren des Wiistenstrauches Lycium andersonii, ei-nem Nachtschattengewachs, gefullt waren. Weil sich an alien Beeren noch die Kelche befanden, nimmt BANTA an, dafi die Krotenechsen auf die Zweige geklettert waren und die Beeren selbst abgelesen hatten. Im Freilandterrarium konnte eine Kronen-krotenechse P. coronatum beobachtet werden, die mehrmals hintereinander kleine, gelbe Bliiten eines Korbbliitlers, die eigentlich fur einen Wiistenleguan (Dipsosaurus dorsalis) bestimmt waren, abrupfte und ver-schlang (BAUR unveroff.).
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www.phrynosoma.com

all right, just saw it.
gimme a bit...been busy all day.

Mick

ok I'm a little rusty on this. I had 3 years german in highschool, were I mostly screwed off and concentrated on learning the bad words, how to ask where the women were, & order beer. it came in handy later when the army sent me there for 2 years. that's been 14 years ago though, and there ain't many people to speak german with lately. but I knew it would come in handy somewhere down the line again...

the whole thing had to be rewritten to understandable english structure in order to make sense of it, so not every word appears in the exact place it did in the german, if you're trying to match word to word. I finally realized the "ii"s were in fact the german "u" with the pronunciation emphasis "dots" above it. there were a few words that were inconsequential to english or I could not translate, so were ommitted. but there was plenty enough to maintain the context.
BTW: "Wusten-kroten-echsen" literally is "Desert Toad Lizard"
and "Kronen-kroten-echse" literally "Crowned Toad Lizard"
I don't know why they are refered to in that manner.

without further delay...the translation:

In a most amazing case, the Toad Lizards also sometimes take plant/vegetable nourishment. So documented BANTA (1961) over numerous [times/occassions?].

Desert Toad Lizard P. Platyrhinos from southern Nevada,whose stomachs were filled from 20-90% with the fleshy orange-red berries of the Wuistenstrauches Lycium andersonii, a nightshade [tomato like fruit bearing thorny plant]. Because the berries "were still on the cups" ( husks? ) [or] "were still in the cups" ( husks? ), BANTA believes, the Toad Lizard had climbed on the branches and the berries themselves had been plucked off. In a free range enclosure a Crowned Toad Lizard P. coronatum could be observed, several times consecutive plucking off and devouring small, yellow Compositae [ Daisy or Dandelion ], that were actually meant for a Desert Iguana (Dipsosaurus dorsalis) (BAUR unveroff.).

http://www.calflora.net/bloomingplants/andersonthornbush.html
http://www.laspilitas.com/plants/1083.htm

I also found when trying to figure out about the plant mentioned with the berries, that these berries can be toxic when unripe, but medicinal when they ripen...Horned Lizards
self medicating maybe?
because this bush also bristles with big thorns it sounds like the kind of place the cornutum sometmes likes to sleep at night; off the desert floor & away from predators.

Mick

Thanks Mick! Excellent write-up.
We can always count on you for thorough input.

An interesting point to note: The HL scat I found with these seeds in it (the seeds in the berries I have collected look like the content of the scat I saw last Sept) is all Solare habitat, not Platyrhinos. At least, That is all I have observed in this area. This was in a canyon north of Apache Junction. The DHL's I believe are all out in the valley floor.
Now the hunt is on for documentation of Solare eating plant matter.
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www.phrynosoma.com

ok man you got me really looking into this!

my cornutum was basking outside earlier and I put in a dandelion seed bloom. according to what I'm finding, all parts including the seed blooms have medicinal value, mainly in stimulating the kidneys and liver. I watched closely for a while with the digital camera at the ready. but he just kept on basking and cocked his head up to shoot me a glance. I went in for about 2 minutes, came back out, and the seed blooms were gone leaving only the base and stem. the air was calm and the dandelion weeds growing just 2 ft. away still had the same number of seed blossoms intact. maybe he walked over it, but I would think there would still be a few of the seeds attached.

I'm not ready to say he actually did devouer it just yet...
I'll try it again when I have more patience and pull up a lawn chair and camera. I'll post first pic I get right away!

Mick

Hey guys,
Wow that is something totally new, and I am glad you brought it up Cable. Reptoman thats awesome that you saw some of your own HLs eat some plants, keep looking into it. This would be really cool to become part of the common knowledge of HL diets. Good luck feeding them plant matter.
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Mike