Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was at my normal petstore to get crickets earlier (and of course they were out) but I went to look at the veileds they had in. They usually have in a few babies and I noticed today there was one of the older ones from a previous group crouched down half asleep in the corner, she looked in pretty bad shape. The petstore ended up giving her to me for free, to let me nurse her back to health.

Anyway here's whats going on with her. From what I can tell she is roughly about 3-5 months old, about 3 inches snout to vent. She is very shaky and weak, and cant walk or climb well on her own. Her front legs arent too bad it seems, I think she will be fine on them with some good supplementation, her back legs are what is concerning me. It seems she broke her back right leg or dislocated it. It now bends in toward her stomach at the hip, and wiggles around alot when she is attempting to walk. She has a slight grip with it, but its just weird to look at when she moves it. Besides that leg I think she could be just fine. I have her in a 20 gallon aquarium at the moment to keep her from wandering around too much, with some pothos and a uv bulb over her. She has taken 2 crickets from my hand already in the first couple hours, and I have been giving her water from a small syringe. It has been about 6 hours since I brought her home, she was pretty listless and tame then, and she already hisses and gapes at my hand now when she didnt before, so I suppose she is feeling better She has been wandering around a bit too.

Mainly my questions are these.
1) Does anyone have any advice on the legs? Besides the back one should good diet and supplementation fix things up? There are really no good herp vets around here, And im not sure what they could do really. How do you fix broken legs on chams? I doubt you can splint it being so small? But I will be calling tomorrow a herp vet I know to get his advice.

2) Should I regulate her food and water intake the first couple days? Or let her take what she wants when she wants? She is pretty adament about drinking more water though tends to choke herself unless I go slow with the drips. The only stuff I have to supplement is minerall indoor, and a liquid calcium I got from the Vet awhile back called Neo Cal Gluconate. My cricket food is calcium gutloaded as well. Should this be enough to help with recovery?

I will try to post pics tomorrow of her leg, letting her get some sleep now. Thanks for any info all and please let me know if there is anything else I forgot to post about health / setup.

-----
1:0 Veiled (Gene)
1:0 Sambava Panther (Knoxville)
1:1 Albino Clawed Frogs (Phedre and Jos)
?? Fire belly toad (Harold)
Various cats and dogs

Hi Erin,

Obviously she needs good care, food, etc. but the one thing a vet could do is to give a shot calcium to get it into her quicker and more efficiently. I would also use the NCg (liq. ca). The dose is by weight so you need to know what she weighs. Example: Luna weighed 90g and her dose was .09ml 2x/day. I would not dust with calcium, too.

Vets can splint legs but I think sometimes they are better healing on their own - but that would be a vet's call.

Her hissing probably doesn't mean she is feeling better (I know what you mean) but is stressed due to all the change. I think keeping her in a small tank for now is probably OK to keep her as close to the ground as possble. You may want to put crumpled up PT or non-loop towels on the bottom in case she does fall - even from a short distance.

You might also consider buying Flukers Repta-Aid for Insectivores (most chain pet stores should have it and if the store that this cham was in has it they should give it to you for free!!) rather than counting on properly gutloading as she probably needs proper nutrients sooner then that would allow. Luna really liked the stuff and it is often all she will take in those crazy gravid days of hers!lol! Not sure if you remember Kim(icequeen) and Zoe - her rescued cham, that is all he ate every day.

I have to ask...if this is a regular pet store you go to have you ever approached them on the housing and care of their chams? From the sounds of this girl they are being severely neglected.

OK, all that said...you know my experience so I am hoping others will chime in (I am sure they will!) but this is what my personal experience with Luna, vet visits and chats, and common sense tells me.

Oh, as for vets...where do you live (forgot - PA?) Who did you bring Aurora to? Have you checked the vet links? - see below.

hope things work out for both of you!

lele
Chameleon Help & Resource Info

-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha

Hey lele
Actually I live in ohio, and the herp vet I took Aurora too was in Indiana. He wasnt in yesterday so I am going to try calling today to see what he suggests. I had to check that vet link last night to get the number again actually. It comes in handy!
The petstore I got her from is the same one I got my first two veileds from, and ive been helping them over the years with their chames. They do take good care of their chameleons, but im workin on them on their nursing back to health practices... I dont think they have rept-i-aid (I looked before there for it for Aurora I believe) but im heading to another city in a bit where Im sure I can grab some.

I will call that vet anyway and ask about getting her a shot of calcium there or (hopefully since its closer)see if he can call in the order here in town somewhere. I need to find out also if this calcium gluconate is still good. It says there is an expiraton date on there, but we got it late last year, and it says it was supposed to have expired in 2003? sooo should probably dbl check that.

Thanks Lele, ill try to keep updated on whats going on, and try to get a pic posted in a bit!

Erin
-----
1:0 Veiled (Gene)
1:0 Sambava Panther (Knoxville)
1:1 Albino Clawed Frogs (Phedre and Jos)
?? Fire belly toad (Harold)
Various cats and dogs

I would try using Exo Terra Electrodize Supplement. It prevents or if its early enough it can reverse metabolic bone disease, it also helps in rehydrating stressed chameleons. It stimulates appetite and activity. Its probably a wise idea to buy a bottle of it and give it a try.

HEADING OUT THE DOOR BUT JUST A QUICK THOUGHT - (oops sorry about those caps!) you will definitely want to get a fecal check for parasites! I doubt any of the pet store chams are cb but even if so, it can be a good gauge of health. and you also know what to look for in poop/urates...

later,
lele

>>Hey lele
>>Actually I live in ohio, and the herp vet I took Aurora too was in Indiana. He wasnt in yesterday so I am going to try calling today to see what he suggests. I had to check that vet link last night to get the number again actually. It comes in handy!
>>The petstore I got her from is the same one I got my first two veileds from, and ive been helping them over the years with their chames. They do take good care of their chameleons, but im workin on them on their nursing back to health practices... I dont think they have rept-i-aid (I looked before there for it for Aurora I believe) but im heading to another city in a bit where Im sure I can grab some.
>>
>>I will call that vet anyway and ask about getting her a shot of calcium there or (hopefully since its closer)see if he can call in the order here in town somewhere. I need to find out also if this calcium gluconate is still good. It says there is an expiraton date on there, but we got it late last year, and it says it was supposed to have expired in 2003? sooo should probably dbl check that.
>>
>>Thanks Lele, ill try to keep updated on whats going on, and try to get a pic posted in a bit!
>>
>>Erin
>>-----
>>1:0 Veiled (Gene)
>>1:0 Sambava Panther (Knoxville)
>>1:1 Albino Clawed Frogs (Phedre and Jos)
>>?? Fire belly toad (Harold)
>>Various cats and dogs
-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha

I managed to get ahold of some Rept-i-aid, and got some of that into her, (she wasnt too pleased about the whole process to begin with but then took it pretty well when she found out she liked the taste lol)
I weighed her today and she weighs 12 grams. Followed the chart and gave her .6 cc's. Is this then a once a day thing? Or should I split it up into multiple feedings? She is still taking water but hasnt taken a cricket today.
I havent noticed and bowel movements to be able to check so far, but I am keeping an eye out.

Thanks!
Erin

p.s I noticed today when she got a bit worked up she was trying to grab wildly infront of her, but kept seeming to catch the side of her face. I remember someone was saying awhile back about the back feet clutching the front legs was a sign of malnutrition or something? Is this along the same lines? Kind of a random thought but was just curious.
-----
1:0 Veiled (Gene)
1:0 Sambava Panther (Knoxville)
1:1 Albino Clawed Frogs (Phedre and Jos)
?? Fire belly toad (Harold)
Various cats and dogs

she only weighs 12 grams??? that is really tiny. you said she is 3 or 4 months old, right? hmmm....

OK, regardless...this is what I did with the repta-aid b/c it is so hard to mix. I made it very watery and let her take as much as she wanted. First, I ground it well with the back of a spoon against a bowl (actually I used a mortar and pestle but most people don't have them so the spoon thing works well next, I used very hot water to mix it and used a large syringe that I got from my pharmacist so that it drips easily from the tip. Once she tastes it she would lap it up like a kitty and milk! Go easy though, so she doesn't overdo it and choke.

What sort of a scale are you using? The repta-aid dosing is important but if you use the NCg you need to be absolutely sure about the weight/dose.

The flailing/pawing may very well be due to MBD. I know you have done the vet check in your area, but have you checked the ARAV? They have a ****load of vets listed in Ohio

lele
ARAV Ohio Vets

-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha