Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm not really sure what type of snake he is. He was just balled up on a leaf in the woods near my house, looks sorta like a rat snake of some sort, he has a bright red/orange area behind his head that you can't see in the pics. He's only like 8inches long, very nippy.. hehe

another.

That is a water snake, of the genus Nerodia. Knowing where you found it would go a long way towards pinning down the species & subspecies.

~~Greg~~

Nerodia sipedon pleuralis. But, let us know where the snake was found and we can pin it down. The color and offset sidebands and the top blotches are what make me think it is a Midland. I have seen lots of those here in KY.
Brian
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

MILKS
0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake "Cable" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade "Omega Red" (KY locale)
Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Looks like Nerodia erythrogaster to me, so that would make it a Red-bellied, Yellow-bellied, or Blotched watersnake depending where it was found. Looks more like a Red-bellied to me.
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Chris Harrison

I'm located near baton rouge, Louisiana. His belly has black and white bands. He wasn't really near any water what so ever. Like a 1/4th or 1/2 a mile from a body of water.

I don't think it would be a Nerodia erythrogaster because Nerodia erythrogaster has no patturn on the belly.. and this one does.. "black and white bars"

is definitely Nerodia of some sort. Check here to narrow your search. http://www.kingsnake.com/louisiana/checklist_of_species.htm

Mike

I would have to say Midland water snake (Nerodia sipedon plueralis).

I've ruled out midland watersnake because i found a picture of a juvenile and it doens't look like what i found at all.. I'm starting to move twards the broad-banded water snake (Nerodia fasciata confluens)

If i can i will get some *much* better pics eather tonight or in the morning and post them. He's been eating baby frogs and minos that i've been putting in with him like crazy.. Although he bites like there is no tomorrow and because i'm tired of bleeding, i'm having the wear gloves everytime i get him out..lol He's a ornery little bugger.

Hi,
I'm in Baton Rouge, too. Quite frankly, the markings are much more like a midland that they are a broad-banded. If you are anywhere near a river like the Comite or Amite, it is probably a midland. Broad-bandeds are much more common though. It is not uncommon to find them quite a ways (a mile or so) in woods where it tends to stay damp. There are also small pools in the woods that frogs and salamanders breed in making them great feeding places for snakes. I counted 20 watersnakes and 2 cottonmouths in a 6x12 foot pool in woods, right where Broadmoor High School is back in the very early 60s.
Jim McLean

well i would have said midland as well from the markings, but after i saw a picture of the juvenile photo of one i was turned from it.

as you can see in this picture i found
http://www.reptilereview.com/photogallery/photo19361/juvmidlandwater.jpg

and this http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/images/midland.jpg

These two have no white bands on top of the body which the one i found does. Plus these have drown/red markings even on top of the body, which mine doesn't, the one i have only has the brown markings on the sides...

"never thought identifiing a local snake would be so hard" lol

here is a closer look at the white lines on the back.. these lines are only on the top part of the snake, all the way down.

Okay, you have helped us by letting us know where the snake was found. The jury is still out on species. A clear photograph of the ventral side will do it. Belly markings are often the main key to discerning between species in Nerodia.

BTW, a decent Field Guide costs a lot less than a digicam.

Cheers! ~~Greg~~

1. Midland
2. yellow bellied
3. broad banded
4. Gulf salt marsh
5. Mississippi green
6. Diamond backed

You said the snake has bands on its stomach?? If this is true, then that rules out midland. The midland has rear facing double row of crescent shapes on its vent. Check out the pic courtesy of snakes and frogs.com:

The markings on the snake you posted look just like an immature midland, however it could be an itergrade with the broad banded as the broad banded ranges throughout LA. The broad banded as a juvenile is very colorful and some have the reds you have on this snake. So if this snake has cross bars on its stomach, then I would have to say it is a midland X broad band intergrade!! Here is a pic of a broad banded courtesy of texassnakes.net:

Its not any of the other 4, just by looking at it. Thats my story and Im stickin to it!! LOL
Brian

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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

MILKS
0.0.1 Eastern Milk snake "Cable" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Eastern/Red milk intergrade "Omega Red" (KY locale)
Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

the belly markings on the midland photo you have shown is nothing like the ones that mine has.. mine has full horizonal bars of black and white going down...

is it normal for these two snakes to mix breed?

Is there any way to post a shot of the snakes ventral side? I can't think of anything that is barred. Does it look kind of just plain? I am beginning to think that it is a plain-bellied(yellow)N. erythrogaster flavigaster. The young often have a reddish pattern like the one this snake shows. If there are BROAD (a scale wide or so)alternating dark and light bars, then I would say that it is probably an intergrate between the midland and the broad-band. Please try and post a picture of the venter so we can get this thing solved.
Jim

Now that I see the face more clearly, it has the dark stripe on the face which the Midland does not have. However, this snake has Midland type dorsal pattern, and a Banded water snake ventral pattern! I agree that is is probably an intergrade ;

Nerodia Sipedon plueralis X Nerodia fasciata confluens

WOW thats something.. is it rare for these to intergrate like this?

Now that I see the face more clearly, it has the dark stripe on the face which the Midland does not have. However, this snake has Midland type dorsal pattern, and a Banded water snake ventral pattern! I agree that is is probably an intergrade ;

I don't know the complete range of Nerodia in LA, but I feel confident that Baton Rouge is too far south for sipedon. Therefore the species that this could be would be fasciata (banded-which it clearly isn't), erythrogaster (yellow-bellied), rhombifer (definitely not), or cyclopion (again - no way). This looks just like the hundreds of other juvenile yellow-bellied watersnakes I have found.

The black bars on the belly are probably just the black edging on some of the lateral parts of the ventral scales.

Here's a juvenile from a little west of there (east TX) -

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Chris Harrison

In the first picture that you posted, you can see a bit of the ventral pattern.....it has no markings. I am pretty sure that it is a plain-bellied. BTW, the midland water snake does just get into the Baton Rouge area in the rivers that I mentioned in an earlier post.
Jim McLean

Ok i got some MUCH better pics this time.. It was daylight so the lighting is much better and he wasn't as snappy.. lol

Here is the belly shot, i was thinking it was striped but i guess i was thinking of something totally differant.. My memory is shot..lol

Here is another

Well,
I am now certain that it is a plain (yellow)bellied watersnake. That unmarked belly is the clincher. It was fun. By the way, they are the watersnakes most likely to be found far from standing water in woods, etc.
Jim

Yes, it was fun indeed. Nice specimen by the way...now i'm a little more knowledgeable about juvenile Nerodia.

Yes i found out what he is, and it was fun at the same time!