Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I moved my carpet into a bigger repitarium a week and a half ago because his old cage was getting too crammed. Thing is, he loved climbing all day on the screen of his old cage, when I put him in the repitarium I could see that it was difficult for him to climb the new material. About 30 times he fell off the sides of the repitarium I guess because he's not use to the change in mesh. I put a towel at the bottom of the repitarium so cushion the fall. I have plenty of foilage and sometimes he cought himself before he fell, but I was still concerned. So I decided to move him back to his old cage, with screen for fear of him hurting himself. He reacted normal for a about an hour in his old cage climbing the screen, and then he went to climb upside down on the top. 20 Minutes later he fell off again onto the floor of the cage and I ran over. He was on one side struggling to get back on his feet with his other legs flailing in the air. I thought he broke his leg for sure, and he got up and scurried across the cage floor FRANTICALLY dragging one leg. I tried to grab him but he scurried away and for the first time hissed at me. Then he climbed the mesh of the screen (so I guessed by now his leg wasn't broken) and JUMPED off onto the cage floor to repeat the process, limping, scurrying, climbing. He did this 2 more times, before I wrapped my shirt around my hand and got him out. As soon as he was on me he calmed down a bit, until he slid off my hand and fell on the carpet floor. He limped on one side again and hissed real loud. Then he got up and scurried across my room like a maniac. Finally I got him gently, and I put him in a large tupperware like container so he couldn't hurt himself. I moved all his stuff from the old cage back to the new and I put him in there. He seems normal now, basking and his legs are not swollen or bent in any way. He hasn't tried to climb the sides of the repitarium yet, and if he does he surely will fall again. What could be wrong? Why is he falling so much?! This isn't a sign for MBD or something is it? Malnutrition? I'm sure by now you all know my setup.. UVB, 40 Watt basking, 80 ambient, 90 basking etc. I've fed him mealworms and crickets on cricketfood.com gutload dusted 3 times a week with mienr-all I and once every two weeks with reptivite. I also gave him mealworms for the first time yesterday, I dont know if that means anything.

Insight, Advice, Help anything is appreciated.

You mention Reptivite and Minerall-I, which takes care of vitamins and minerals, but what are you using for calcium dusting? Examine your calcium sources for dusting and for gutloading. Inability to maintain grip is one sign of early MBD.

Falling that many times is unacceptable. He should not have been allowed to fall so many times repetitively. Why did you let it happen over and over? Carpets, even CBB ones, are extremely timid chameleons, very susceptible to external stressors (including you). They will not tolerate the presence of a human like a Panther for Veiled will. There is a chance he was merely trying to flee from you. The colors your chameleon is showing in the attached image are colors of stress! Leave the poor chameleon alone, for his own good.

I'm using miner-all I for calcium, and the also using calcium water bites. What should I have done to prevent him to fall while in the repitarium? The cage is nearly filled with foilage and I did all I can. Do you think I should just leave him alone? I'm going to up his calcium intake and give him dailey Miami Sun time instead of weekly.

You do, of course, have a Reptisun Fluoroscent or similar on him correct? I am new to this forum (but not new to chameleons) and I believe I have read about your chameleon falling many times previously. This could be due to stress and too much intrusion on the their environment (most pictures are with you holding/handling)...just a thought (IMHO). Sometimes when they are stressed, (being they are sooo small and we are soooo huge) just standing close to a cage or constantly peering in could cause this stress and elicit a "fight or flight" response. YOu sound like a very caring chameleon owner, sometimes maybe less is more!!!!

Chris

try lowering the temp alittle bit... when chams are that small they tend to heat up quickly and then realize it after they are extremly hot and make a runn for the shade.....not paying attention to really where they are going or what if anything they are grapping. i had my veiled do that a few times mainly when i misted the cage accidently with cold water which scared her and she would run....it happined a few times when i was holding her out side in the sun....she would realize she was on my hand and very warm and try to go for an "escape" across the yard...not looking where she was going.

anyways try lowering the temp a little bit ....he could have been climb the sides looking for a way out.

Don't get me wrong I hardly handle him. Maybe once every other day. When I take pictures I take him out simply because there is may to much foilage in the way. He is never scared of me since yesterday. Whenever I stick my arm in his cage he'll gladly climb on for himself. Also i'm using a reptiglo 8.0 and its only a month old. He also gets 5 hour basking periods in Miami sun once a week, but I will start doing that everyday. Anymore thoughts on whether this is the beginning case of MBD. He still falls from the repitarium. I think it is the meshy material because he struggles to get his claws out sometimes. He never use to fall in the screen mesh, until I put him back in there. I really don't know why he keeps falling! I give him plenty of caclium dusting 3 times a week with Minerall-I and gutloading crickets with caclium and waterbites with calcium.

Handling your chameleon every other day IS WAY TOO MUCH!!!!!! That means every other day he is getting the crap scared out of him. If you had something really scary happen to every other day, something that got your adrenalin up, raising your body's cortisol levels, believe me, eventually this will take a serious toll on your body's many systems. Your little chameleon thinks his world is ending when a big predator (YOU) comes into his world every other day and in his mind, tries to attack and eat him. Try thinking about his point of view. Believing that you're about to be eaten is a serious stress event on a little chameleon. If you want to put that much stress on you chameleon every other day, that's your choice, but me, I only handly my chameleon's once every two weeks, for serial weighing---out into the weighing container, onto the scale, and then right back in the cage---about 15 seconds total. That's it, 30 seconds of handling in one month's time. Even that little bit of activity gets them gaping, hissing, and showing stress colors. I choose not the inflict unnecessary and harmful stress on these little animals. Do whatever you want, but you've been advised countless times to leave your poor chameleon ALONE. Lastly, it has been stated numerous times also that Carpets are much more vulnerable to stress than other species of chameleons. Perhaps you'd be better off with a CB Veiled or Panther. Your relentless badgering of the little Carpet will lead to a plethora of problems, and I almost guarantee you'll see mouthrot one day, as this is a common way longterm stress manifests in Carpets. Mouthrot is no fun, and extermely difficult to treat once it begins.

IMO, calcium from Minerall-I is not enough. You need a separate calcium dust. Crix are inherently high in phosphorus, so you already have an uphill battle just balancing the ca-phos ratio, let alone bringing it to an ideal ratio.

In summary, I am no expert, but I have kept many Carpets, and I will pretty much guarantee that you are slowly killing your chameleon by handling it so much. Anyway, good luck.

~Kerry I., LVT (VTS-ECC)
Licensed Vet Tech, Emergency and Critical Care specialist.

It has been said on this forum many times that chams have unique personalities and some may tolerate handling. I don't care what everyone has to tell me that carpets are shy etc, but all I can say mine isn't! I've had my CB carpet for 3 months now and I have handled him with ease. I AM AWARE THAT CHAM's COLOR SHOWS SIGN OF STRESS! The stress coloration only appears when I have my camera in front of him, otherwise while he is on me he is as calm as possible and so are his colors. And I do repeat, when I put my hand in the cage he crawls on my hand. If he really associated me with fear and as a predator why would he do this? He is also comfortable with me to hand feed. Every other day when I handle him he gladly takes crickets from my hand without question. Does not look around or anything, just goes straight for it. I think the reason why he freaked out and hissed at me was because of the change in environment. When I moved him into his old cage the flooring of the cage was no longer a soft towel but a hard surface. When he fell i'm assuming he wasn't use to falling on that kind of surface and freaked out, and when I tried to take him out of the cage he associated me with his pain, so he ran away climbed the screen cage and leaped off to get away from me. Yes, for that very moment he was scared of me. The reason why I asked was questioning the sudden change in behavior. How does he go from calm and docile he freaked out and crazy? My vet told me it was the environment change and the lack of cusion that he is accustomed to when he falls. So why is he falling so much? Is it the change from a repitarium mesh from a screen cage mesh (the window type of screening)? I see sometimes him struggling to grasp onto the repitarium sides and him trying to grab onto the black smooth surface of the black frame within. Anyone else experience excess falling when changing from a window type screen to a reptiarium type mesh?

It sounds like you are doing your best. However, do NOT over-dust. Too much calcium is as bad as too little calcium. Do you have a picture of your cage set up? BOth of them?

I know you and your brother are doing a lot of research about your chameleons, and that is great. I applaud you. However, I recall numerous posts from the two of you regarding issues or problems you were experiencing with your chams. This is somewhat normal, as unfortunately there must be a learning curve. But, I just noticed an ad on FaunaClassifieds from tassardar (your brother I believe) inquiring about getting a Female Carpet chameleon. Don't you two think you should take this a little slower, and perhaps let the juvenile chameleons you have presently get a little older. Do you have enough financial resources to have vet care for all of them if necessary?
I know it can be a bit addictive when you first become interested in chameleons, but I think it would be best if you waited a little longer before getting too many more animals. Your chameleons aren't old enough for you determine if you are doing something wrong regarding their husbandry (as shown with the potential for MBD with your Carpet).

Better words have not been said! Before I posted on this forum I have read past posts and it seems there has been a plethora of problems with the tassdar/jeffreypeacock chameleons, from falling, broken tailes........etc...so maybe a little more experience is needed with the chameleons at hand. Less handling, more observing, more consistency, will make for less accidents, less stress on your chameleon.

Do you have pictures of your setup(s)?