Hello I have an ethical question for all boa breeders. I recently had a small litter of sharp albinos and out of that litter one appears to be blind it had one bad eye and the other eye appears clouded. My question to all breeders is what do you do with the ones that are born less than perfect? With all the right to life talk going on right now I was thinking does a boa deserve the right not to be humanely euthanized? Or should it be euthanized in order to prevent any more abnormalities from accruing? I have seen at least one big breeder advertising abnormal boas as “B” grade. This brings up some ethical questions with me are we encouraging and approving the breeding of these animals by selling them this way? Or should they be euthanized regardless. maybe they can be sold as pet quality only not to be breed? IM very interested in what everyone’s opinion is on this subject.
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Ethical question for all breeders.
Replies (22)
anyone not to breed it! You should keep it yourself and raise as a "pet". I always wondered if you could nueter or spay a snake?!?!
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Chris & Alliey
Giantkeeper Reptiles
E-mail Us
I would not sell it to anyone unless you know for sure it will not be used for breeding.. Only "simple" way to ensure that would be to sterilize it.. Males should be quite simple to sterilize as many of us know when a prolapsed hemipene occurs it usually ends up being amputated.. (so just have both hemi's amputed and walla not capable of breeding). Females on the other hand I have no idea how or if possible to safely sterilize them.
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Randall L Turner Jr.
Amputating Mr. Winky is sad.
Times two in this case.
I have had two animals prolapse this week! DOH!
My lavender corn snake, and a leopard gecko I got 2 days ago.
They should both be salvageable, but that put a big dent in my pocket...ouch.
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Jeremy J. Anderson
Gem State Reptiles
possibly good animals. Albinos are be nature weaker than other animals in many ways. However, eventhough blind, they may be perfectly health internaly. For example: I know a VERY respected breeder who has an albino with NO EYES on its head! None at all! He Breed it and got a litter of perfectly health lovely albinos. Im not saying that you should not be extremely caughtious, in fact I would sell none of them. I would though, if they are health, raise them myself to see if they are genetically sound. Just a thought. I do think it would be wise not to circulate those animals! Dan.
I personaly would like to know the name of this breeder, and Im courious how respected he would be after that information was released. I also wonder how many people would Knowingly buy an investment animal with a parent that has no eyes. Sounds like one of the money driven degenerates that everyone is saying to keep this boa from...
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-echo-
This gentlemen is known by all and if he choses to add to this he may. I will say he openly told me about the fact that an animal with this problem produced healthy babies. He would not sell ANY of these without telling you first! As I said, he is a respected breeder... not the type you or I worry about. Its just interesting that albinos, as weak as they are turn out as good as they do so often. I think we should thank thank Kahl for one for out-breeding this morph as he has! It probably why we have any good albino lines at all. Dan
Do you think you could trust a zoo not to breed it. If so why not let people that go to a zoo see something different. Also the BIG BREEDER that breeds a deformed albino is in it for the money no excuses. It also raises my wonder of what they tell us they do and what they really do. I wish i knew who you were talking about so i wouldn't purchase an animal from that person ( He or She). I won't support that type of business. But back to the zoo thing write up a contract and donate it to them then use it for a tax write off ( if you can). Or get a free membership for the family in trade. Just an idea Paul
What if the big breeder was doing this as a case study to determine the way the one eye or no eye gene is inherited. When he produced all normal boas what would you do? Kill them all? Keep everyone as a pet?
It seems fair to sell some of them disclosing the fact they were from a no eyed parent, and hold the rest back for future breeding trials.
Now I'm not saying this was the case, I have no idea, but what if it were? Some might say give them away, but does that make it any different really? As a normal looking boa who's to say that it would never end up in the breeding pool.
What do you guys think is the right thing to do? Keep in mind trials such as this could help to greatly reduce or eliminate one eyed and no eyed boas which would be great espically for the one and no eyed animals .
or it could pollute the gene pool greater than it already is and cause more instances of one/no eyed boas. To breed a boa with no eyes is reckless and something that is done out of greed. and If it wasnt the people who get killer deals on "normal" albino boas are going to breed them out of greed knowing about the parent (if that information was actually disclosed0, there by passing possible genetic flaws.
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-echo-
Like it was stated before, you cannot trust anyone NOT to breed it when faced with all the dollar signs. If you dont want to keep it as a personal pet, put it down. To sell it would be just as irresoponsible as the guy selling the "no-eye" boa a while back, and I read a post on another site where a heeper wanted to prove out "eyeless" scrub pythons. It will just add to corruption of gene pool.
I have one "pet" boa. As primaraly a python keeper my first boa was one that came through my store that had a small birth defect on its underside. And though it is one of the most beautiful reg. boas Ive seen I didnt want it to be sold and bred and have the trait passed down even if in under lying genes. So thats how i enede up with my first boa, and one of the few (writen in stone) permanent pats. Meet "Defect":
For everyone who things that it should be given a fair chance just like every other boa, think of it this way: how long do you think a blind albino boa would really last in the wild. a few hours? maybe a few days if its lucky?
Keep it of cull it.
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-echo-
That looks more like it was an infected belly button than a defect, although it is one pic.
Personally I wold say keep it yourself or cull it.
I would agree with belly button statement, if I didn't know it was about 3 inches from its head.
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Davey Giltner
Well so much for that idea... lol
you can see a little kink from the top view where the deformity is on the bottom:
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-echo-
I know there can be a problem with eyes and blindness in some Kahl strain albinos but is that also the case with Sharp strain albinos?
If it was otherwise healthy I would keep it as a pet or give it away as a pet.
Bill Kirby
If putting it down is your option..........Send it to me. I'll pay for shipping for it. And, I will promise to never breed it.
I "get" everything each person is saying. In a breeder's world.......I guess it even makes sense. You want to remove a weak link from the breeding circle. I get all this.
But, to me......This is still an animal. And, I'm a sucker for animals that don't fit the mold. (I once bought a hamster from a pet store because it didn't have a foot. Someone else took it back originally to the petstore for that reason. It killed me! That hamster was one of the best hamsters I have ever owned. I have owned many "non-perfect" animals. All of them were wonderful pets.)
Or, give it to a trusted friend with the firm understanding that it is a PET ONLY!
I will agree. It really should not be bred. But, sterylization.....Death.......Too extreme for me. I have always said that I will be a keeper before a breeder. Maybe that is why I am so stongly against putting it down. I could see if there were health problems that could cause the animal pain. But, the lack of one eye? It will be a great pet. Just not a breeder.
Please find someone who will keep it as a pet. Worst case, I'll take it. I would rather it go to a good home than cease to exist. Give it to a trusted keeper.
John
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"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."
not breed it.
I think boas are wonderful pets ... and lacking an eye will not in any way hinder its effectiveness as a pet. It will still be a beautiful boa as well.
I have had many posts erased over euthanization and it always seems to come down to; " folks not wanting to hear the truth. " Not my truth, but what is best for genetic captive bloodlines. If you would like to know my take on this issue, you can E-mail me at madisonrecords@comcast.net if I recieve a E-mail, I will respond and tell you my findings, so that I will not hurt anybodys little feelings on this forum.......Johnson Herp
First and second generation albinos have no reason to be this messed up. Proper breeding techniques will have new genetic material brought in regularly.
As for the single animal, I would not sell it, but give it to an aquantence or yourself as a pet only. If the quality of life is going to suffer to much than euthanasia is best.
As for the whole family line, I would discontinue it or at the least, bring in some happy and healthy normal boas and breed for hets, then so on.
Of course this is a money game and as long as there is a demand for white boas, no matter what the quality of animal, then there is no incentive to do things responsibly. Unless you are a hobbyist like the many of us, and doing it for fun.
Does that mean we should all stop breeding albinos since the one eyed gene is no doubt in all lines no matter how diluted.
that abnormal eyes is genetic? I thought that was one of several possibilities that hadn't been tested. Details, please.
I'd like to see the outcome of breeding a brother x sister pair, both of which lacked eyes, after they were raised on a high quality diet. There are a variety of congenital abnomalities, in both humans and an assortment of domestic animals, that are caused by mild vitamin/mineral deficiencies in the mother.
Paul Hollander
Don't know whether this post is through or not but I'll throw my two cents in anyway. These B grade animals are getting sold for hundreds less to people who may not have a chance at owning one otherwise. Let's say these people were to breed this one eyed/no-eyed boa. What would they breed it to, a het or a normal probably which would be great, spreading out the gene pool even further. Of course you wouldn't want to breed it with a sibling or closely related boa but why not outcross it? And if you are continually coming up with these abnormalities bring in some fresh blood. Knowing breeders will hopefully strive to produce only the best and inform potential customers of any defects. Unless the babies are unhealthy in some way let them go to someone who can appreciate them for what they are. How many of us 20 years ago would have given our left...arm to get our hands on say an albino burm. Be informed. Know where your stock comes from.
