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on an unhappy note....

Crotaphytuskidd Mar 27, 2005 05:07 PM

Hey all,

So I found my first DHL of the year today....unfortunately he was half dead from vehicle trauma. Since he was still moving his legs, I was unsure if he was still alive or it was rigor mortis (sp?) I felt compelled to end his suffering for sure, which leads me to my question. Does anyone else do this? I feel I did what was morally right, but ethically, I am unsure....so if you all can give me your impressions, I'd be most appreciative. On a hopeful note, if there was one male on that dirt road, I'll bet there are more around there. Anyway, thanks for your guys insight.

Happy Easter!

regards,
-Phil

Replies (8)

Cable_Hogue Mar 27, 2005 06:33 PM

Hey Phil,
Happy Easter! You did the right thing man. There's probably internal damage and it would just be a drawn out death if you let him live.
The death is a shame but no need to feel bad about your actions.
-----
www.phrynosoma.com

fireside3 Mar 27, 2005 07:40 PM

it could have been residual nerve impulses. but either way when an animal is just mindlessly moving it's limbs, it's usually just a matter of time, or it's already gone. I sympathize with your feelings in this. I have been placed in the same situation before. it isn't an easy call...what do you do? I can be pretty sterile and clinical at times, but I find as more time passes since I have left the military & law enforcement life, or maybe it's because I'm just getting older, that I'm realizing a little more sensitivity on things such as this. I could not have just smashed it's head with a rock or something, but who carries a syringe of anesthesia around... you know? there have been a few times when the animal expires in the few seconds when I'm still pondering what to do. I have to say it was a relief when I didn't have to make the choice.

about 6 years ago, a past girlfreind of mine had 2 young children; a boy (2) and a girl (4). we frequently would take them for a good drive at night to put them to sleep. one night in particular, we were just about to get on the highway from the frontage road after I had taken them down "roller coaster hill" ( so named because if you went over these 3 closely spaced hills at a good clip you would feel significant & -
G's ). just before the on-ramp a racoon darted into the road.
I couldn't do anything and hit it. I stopped and went to check on it, taking my duty sidearm. it was already dead, no breathing, no movement. the children figured out what happened and of couse were upset. the boy was particularly sensitive and was crying. ( he bawled once when, while trying to pin a "cow ant" with a twig, to show it to him, I accidentally severed it's thorax ). their mother told them the racoon would be ok...I didn't know what to say. I figured I would tell them the truth and try to comfort them, but they seemed to calm and after about 20 min in the drive they had settled.

on the return trip back from the next town I took a different country 2 lane highway. about 5 miles outside town I hadn't gotten up to the 65 speed limit yet...another racoon leaped into the road. I braked hard as possible without drifting into the opposite lane or endangering us & the kids more than necessary. I HIT THIS ONE "TWO"...I almost stopped in time but it darted into in the tires as it tried to run back. it was closeby and I could tell it was still alive, struggling to make it back to the woods. the kids by this time were traumatized, both crying. the little girl gave me such a pitiful look as to convey the question that I had brought them out to some sick sporting event! I got out...again...with my weapon. the animal had collapsed a few feet away and was lying outstretched laboring hard to breathe. I waited a moment, pondering...and waiting for the mother to distract her children from the sight...then fired center-mass to make it clean. I sighed and paused a moment before getting back to the truck...struggling to stay in the "flat affect" of logic. when I got in my girlfriend was sobbing, the kids were sobbing, and I couldn't hold up. I silently gave it the few tears I guess I felt I could allow on the drive back. I would have buried it but I had nothing to dig with. had the children not been asleep again by the time we returned, I would have driven the 20 miles back to do so. but we felt the situation best that we let them sleep and try to get them over it the next day. it took a bit of reassuring too, in the following days, just to convince them I wasn't hunting racoon with the truck...

you might take some comfort in the likelyhood that it was probably too deep in shock to feel anything, or it was already dead and what you saw was the neuromuscular response as the brain's last bit of current drained away.

anyway, I thought if I shared that horrible event you'd be so shocked by the end you'd forget what it was you asked me about...

Mick

Cable_Hogue Mar 27, 2005 10:43 PM

Mick,
I don't know if I'm sick or what but that was so tragic it's almost humorous. Like in the horror movie when the bad guy gets back up after already being killed three times and coming at you with a machette.
My wife doesn't know what to think when I laugh at that but to me I'm just in the writers head and seeing him think "can I get away with this"
Sorry if I've offended anyones sensibilities.
-----
www.phrynosoma.com

fireside3 Mar 28, 2005 01:50 AM

nah, if I'm not offended by it who could be? it was pretty messed up at the time, but looking back on it I have to admit, it was sooo messed up you have to see the humor in it. I guess maybe I'm a little sick & twisted too. every time I tell that story to somebody they laugh their a** off. the little girl...
she was maaaad @ me for the next few days, and for a good long time afterwards she would still ask when we drove somewhere,
"are we going to run over a racoon tonight?"

Mick

Crotaphytuskidd Apr 03, 2005 08:04 PM

Hey guys,
Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it. What did I post again? =) j/k. So now I'm determined to find a live HL, and take some pictures, I miss photography. lol. Although with this blasted weather, I probably will have to wait a couple days. ugh. Oh well. I'll let you know what i find when I get out. thanks again guys. Talk to you all later.

-Phil

fireside3 Apr 04, 2005 01:06 AM

well guys it just seems to be going around...
I lost my Cornutum to heat stress on Wed. and I'm really kicking myslf over it. I'm usually more cautious with the heat
but it didn't seem that hot out, even on the sand. I am puzzled about it since my 2 1/2 year old box turtle was also outside, and she was fine.

I got busy mid-day and missed checking on him during the hottest part. after talking to Cable about it I think, even though there were several hides and a full water dish,
that there still wasn't sufficient shade. I tried to provide
plenty of surface area for natural sunlight, but I guess for that reason it still got too hot under the hides. he didn't even burrow, I found him on top of the sand under a hide.
I also think I conditioned him by offering frequent mistings during the day.

since Cable related his experience with this problem and modifying to include more shade, my opinion will follow these observations to allow more as well if I continue with outdoor setups. I slipped on one of my own basic rules. that the reptile usually knows what's best for itself in most situations. I tried to regulate the UV exposure for him a bit too much, thinking it wasn't getting hot enough this early, instead of providing a smaller area of sun and letting him decide. I hope this information helps somebody else keeping them outdoors. the air temps outside were only in the mid 80's. but I won't make the mistake of underestimating temps on the surface again.

Mick

Crotaphytuskidd Apr 05, 2005 06:07 PM

Dude, I'm sorry to hear that!
Its weird how heat can really affect a herp. I almost lost a Collared Lizard bringing her home after her capture. I was younger, and was on my bike, but I was lucky that I decided to peek in the pillowcase at some point. She was panting, with her mouth open, not knowing what to do I gave her some water, at least it did the trick. That sucks about the cornutum. I'm sorry man.

-Phil

fireside3 Apr 05, 2005 09:37 PM

thanks Phil...

this really burns me up. of all the reptiles I've lost untimely over the years, most have been outside. I just can't seem to get that down. my western diamondback died when I went out of town and let a friend stay over at my house. he brought his girlfriend over to camp out too, and she didn't want to stay over with MY snake in MY house. so this guy moves it outside the garage where it froze to death overnight. 10 years later I'm still pissed about it. maybe I've been too diversified with lizards, snakes, & turtles; instead of specialized. the one's I've kept indoors live a very long time. I'm starting to wonder; if you're going to take a reptile out of the wild where it can't roam free, if it's just better off indoors where you can maintain consistent environmental conditions? otherwise build a very huge and broadly diversified outdoor "biosphere".

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