Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just read a news story, here: http://www.wesh.com/news/4321302/detail.html
about some guy in Melbourne that got bit on THE FOREHEAD by a Dendroaspis augusticeps.
Is this anyone in the business? I read he was with a "permitted" snake handler. Who is it, and is he doing OK?
Just curious.
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Jeremy J. Anderson
Gem State Reptiles
HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY! HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY! HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY! HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY! HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY!

Actually it was a Black Mamba.

See, I read the story a little bit differently....It didn't say that he "was with" a permitted snake handler at the time of the bite. I believe it said that he resided in the same residence.

As far as getting tagged in the forehead of all places, it's obvious that this guy wasn't licensed to work with mambas...I doubt very seriously that his licensed house-mate would have allowed this to happen if he were in the vicinity, due to possible liability issues....

Of course, this is all speculation, but I'll wager that his licensed house-mate had no idea that he was foolin' around with his mamba....maybe he wasn't even home at the time.

I'm predicting that the licensed man will have his license revoked. If the "victim" was an adult, you probably won't see any neglect/endangerment charges stem from this....but you never know...

Mambas are incredibly dangerous animals, and I cannot fathom why anyone would work with one without taking proper precautions...The fact that the guy got it in the forehead indicates (to me anyway) that he was unfamiliar with a mambas' behavior and unpredictable nature. I'm glad the guy is going to be ok, but here we are again....another black eye for the hobby based upon someones' foolish decisions...Same old story....

-AzAtrox

First off AZ, the person who owns the snake is one of the most qualified out of any hotherper to own mambas. I know the two individuals so I dont think its good to spout of accuasations on here when you dont know any of the facts. They both do a ton for the hobby I dont want to see BS like being un-qualified being spread around.

Joe

The news said he didn't have a permit, does anyone know?

FL,

Read my post again....I did not accuse anyone of anything. In fact, I suggested (AND STATED) that the person who WAS qualified might not have even been home at the time of the bite. The article was very specific to say that the person bitten WAS NOT qualified...I did not accuse anyone of anything.

However, I did say that getting tagged on the forehead is indicative of someone that does not know how to handle a mamba...Is this the case? I don't know...I don't know either of these people so I cannot say with certainty. I can tell you that according to the state of Florida, this person did not qualify to handle mambas, because they were not qualified and licensed.

Now, you may be friends with these people....ok, good. But don't let that friendship cloud your judgement as to what are and are not responsible handling techniques. If one of my buddies decides to free-handle his rattlesnake, I'm certainly not making any excuses for him when he gets tagged. (Not saying that's what happened here, just giving an example.)

-AzAtrox

Just to clarify, you do NOT need a permit in Florida to handle venomous as long as you are "authorized" by a permit holder to handle his snakes on his permitted premises.

And to FLVenom, no offense, to you or the person bitten, but I think it's perfectly reasonable for someone to question the skills of someone who allows themselves to be bitten on the HEAD. I can envision someone who really knows what they're doing making a mistake that somehow eventually leads to such an accident, but I think it's out of line to tear into someone for not ASSUMING that was the case.

I will comment on the bite, ONLY because the victim is a friend, and does not deserve any negative publicity.

Both handlers are very qualified and experienced handlers. One of the persons involved is probably in the top five of the qualified handlers in Florida. This was one of those fluke acidents. Yes, it could have been prevented (as ALL accidents could), but this incident in no way was due to any carelessness on the part of either handler. To my knowledge, this was the victims FIRST bite (not second mamba bite) You all will learn fast enough that you can not believe 50% of what the press writes. One of the stories written was so bad that the victim has a good case for slander or lible (and this may be persued). My point is this: Please do not make negative remarks about our fellow hobbyists based on media reports. It is always best to find out the FACTS first, then if you feel inclined to judge someone, at least you will have the actual facts so it does not make you look silly in the end ****This is not directed at psilocybe, this is just in general because I have been hearing a lot of silliness about this over the past few days***

Two more than qualified handlers were bagging a large black mamba Saturday morning. At some point there was an issue with the bag, so X backed away with the mamba safely controlled on a hook while Y leaned forward to fix the snake bag. When Y leaned forward the mamba struck and bit Y on the back of the head. Neither handler felt that the snake would have been able to reach Y at the point that Y leaned forward (or obviously Y would not have done so). This was a case of miscalculation that took both handlers off guard. This is a large Black Mamba (it was about 6 feet long when I gave it to X to care for over a year ago. It was one of my imports that came in in REAL bad shape. X did an excellent job getting it to its current condition and size) Again, Both are very respected in our community as venomous keepers.

Five vials of SAIMR antivenom were administered at a nearby hospital, and another 5 were administered after the victim was taken to a facility in Miami. Beacuse the patient responded well to the antivenom, and the fact that this was a minimal envenomation, and he was asymptomatic, the patient was able to go home the same evening, but was monitored by a friend (with medical knowledge) for an additional 24 hours or more.

The handlers implimented a good emergency protocol (in fact I was even called for additional antivenom) and the snake was secured. As useral, both handlers knew more about propper treatment than the attending physician.

I hope this clears up any confussion about this matter.

Ray Hunter

The local Fox affiliate reported that the victim was a "zoo worker", and that he was bitten in the back of the head.

WKMG (Orlando, Florida) 28 March 05 Black Mamba Snake Bites Central Fla. Man
Florida Fish and Wildlife investigators are trying to determine how a Melbourne man was bitten by one of the world's most deadly snakes -- a black mamba -- inside his home, according to Local 6 News.
The man was rushed to a hospital in Miami and given 10 vials of anti-venin over the weekend after the black mamba bite. His condition was not available Monday morning.
Local 6 News learned that the victim's roommate has a permit to handle poisonous snakes.
The incident is under investigation.
Black mamba snakes are native to Africa and can grow up to 14 feet long.
They are considered among the fastest and most deadly snakes in the world, according to the report.
http://www.local6.com/news/4321742/detail.html

WFTV (Orlando, Florida) 28 March 05 Man Survives Bite From One Of World's Deadliest Snakes
Miami: Mental health experts at a Miami Hospital are trying to determine why a Brevard County man was handling one of the world's deadliest snakes when he was bitten.
Rescue workers rushed the Melbourne snake handler to the hospital after a black mamba bit him in the back of the head.
Police say the man was given anti-venom but he refused further treatment.
Police also believe this is the second time he was bitten by the same species of snake.
Florida Fish and Wildlife officials are also investigating the incident.
http://www.wftv.com/news/4321691/detail.html

FLORIDA TODAY (Melbourne, Florida) 27 March 05 Exotic snake strikes owner - Man in Miami for treatment (Erika Pesantes)
Emergency crews flew a Melbourne snake handler to a South Florida hospital Saturday after he was bitten by a deadly black mamba.
The middle-aged man, whose identity was not released, was in guarded condition at Kendall Regional Medical Center in Miami-Dade County, said Capt. Al Cruz, director of Miami-Dade Fire-Rescue's Antivenin Unit.
The snake handler was bitten in the back of the head while preparing to place the snake -- part of a private collection -- in a sack.
When the handler turned around, the snake struck, said Orlando Dominguez, a spokesman for Brevard County Fire-Rescue.
Dominguez said the man was privately driven to Wuesthoff Hospital in Melbourne, where he received antivenin and was stabilized.
From there, he was taken to Melbourne International Airport for the emergency flight to Miami-Dade and further treatment.
"Anytime it's close to the upper body, it's more dangerous," Cruz said. "It affects the central nervous system quicker."
Black mambas are native to southern Africa and are one of the world's most feared snakes.
Their venom is among the most potent of any snake. It is a neurotoxin, which immediately affects the central nervous system and ultimately causes fatal paralysis.
Cruz said the man showed symptoms of paralysis associated with a snake bite. These included numbness throughout the body and tingling in the limbs, but he was able to move, Cruz said.
"There are six different types of mambas. This is the most toxic by far," Cruz said. "They're the fastest snake in the world -- it's probably the only snake that can outrun a human."
Miami-Dade's Antivenin Unit was established because of the large volume of venomous snake imported through the South Florida area.
The unit has an assortment of 42 different types of antivenin, which covers more than 95 percent of the world's species, he said.
The state requires anyone possessing a venomous snake be licensed.
http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050327/NEWS01/503270330/-1/archives

WESH (Winter Park, Florida) 27 March 05 Melbourne Man Bitten By Deadly Black Mamba Snake
Melbourne, Fla.: A Melbourne man was bitten in the forehead by a black mamba snake, authorities said.
The black mamba is an extremely fast, venomous snake that is native to eastern Africa.
The incident occurred at a private residence in Melbourne.
The unidentified man was not a permitted snake handler, but lives with a licensed Florida snake handler.
After the bite, the man was transported to a hospital in south Florida where was given 10 vials of anti-venom. He is expected to recover from the bite.
The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is conducting an investigation of the incident.
The deadly black mamba is the fastest moving snake and can cruise at a speed of up to 7 mph in short bursts. The venom is nerotoxic and cardiotoxic. The venom yield is 100-400 milligrams. Ten to 15 milligrams is fatal in humans.
After being bitten, the victim may be fully conscious, but all muscles are paralyzed. If left untreated, death from respiratory failure usually occurs in seven to 15 hours.
http://www.wesh.com/news/4321302/detail.html

"They're the fastest snake in the world -- it's probably the only snake that can outrun a human."

Wow, I always thought humans could run faster than 7 mph.

They can, but Black Mambas can actually move about 14 MPH.Try running 14MPH through heavy woods.

I haven't heard that one, last I heard was 9 in short bursts, and that was from the Guinness book of records. I'm not trying to take away from Al's "sensationalism" of this snake, but come on. I wonder if it's really the press getting bad info, rather than them giving bad info. It seems everytime there is a bite, "CERTAIN" people have to up play a bite. I can even go back a little ways and bring up a post from a well "respected" zoo curator that told the news a black mamba would kill 200 people. How does this help?
The bites and the sensationalism by people who want to be associated with the hype are getting freakin' ridiculous. Then again, how can it not when an UNPERMITTED "experienced" keeper IS BITTEN ON THE BACK OF THE HEAD.
Sory for the rant, but Florida still has a permit system and my state doesn't (NY), so you should be able to see why I'm a little miffed about this. I held off on saying anything for a few days, but can't any longer. I'm almost getting to the point where I'm going to go to Hamburg and buy whatever I feel like, and pay the fine if the DEC finds out. However, I've always prided myself on being responsible. It sucks that other "experienced" people are ruining it for everyone else BUT THEMSELVES.

I can see why you would feel this way. But the permit issue is another bit of bad information by the press. This person DOES have a venomous Permit. As to the snakes speed, Most of what I have read states that they can move UP TO 14 MPH. That would include 9MPH. The writtings did not say how far the animal could travel at that speed, but I am sure it is not very far. Symantical issues to me, they are fast.
Peace,
Ray

I have worked with the people involved in this incident and they have a ton of experience dealing with Mambas etc. They are professionals and people should not make any judgements before they know the facts.

Sloane Russeck

What exactly are the facts?? sounds pretty basic...guy got bit by a mamba. Its funny how if this was a "non professional" you guys would be freaking out..but since its a "professional" its ok...How come i dont hear all that talk about how the hobby is going to get screwed because somone got bit by their mamba.
Why is it different if one or your buddies gets bit instead of somone you never heard of...the affects on the reptile community are the same.

No idea who he is, but this bite raises the hairs on the back of my neck. It really doesn't show professionalism. It shows numerous easily avoided mistakes. Mostly from the individual that was licensed. but thats just my take.
http://www.local6com/news/4321742/detail.html

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It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens
Rapid City, SD.

www.reptilegardens.com

sorry, try this one.
Link

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It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens
Rapid City, SD.

www.reptilegardens.com

I noticed that you all deftly avoided mentioning the guy by name. That's cool. I don't know how I feel about the whole venomous hobby, but I think you should have a right to keep them if you are competent. Incidents like this make me shudder, though. What happens if you get bit by a Mamba in Wyoming? You're pretty well screwed, right? I mean, there isn't Dendroaspis AV in that area as far as I would guess. Nor here in Idaho for that matter.

Competent or not, there are two types of venomous keepers:
Those who have been bit, and
Those who are going to get bit.

I, personally have kept snakes for nearly 20 years, and I am hesitant about my first hot. I have considered it for a long time.
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Jeremy J. Anderson
Gem State Reptiles
HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY! HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY! HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY! HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY! HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY!

I don't necessarily see it as inevitable that one will get bitten if one keeps hots. Yes, the possibility always exists. However, if one always sticks to strict protocols when dealing with venomous snakes, it's entirely possible to successfully keep these animals for as long as one desires without suffering a bite.

They are unpredictable, dangerous animals. Anytime one comes in close contact with a venomous snake, there is a chance that a bite will occur. However, that does not preclude that a bite WILL occur.

I have been keeping vens off and on for upwards of 10 years now and have never been bitten. Can it happen? You better believe it! But ONLY if I deviate from established protocols in my dealings with these animals (i.e. inscure caging, free handling, reaching in "only for a second" to remove an uneaten rodent, fill a water bowl, etc.) As long as one is responsible and ever-attentive to the dangers that these animals possess, there's no reason to think that every keeper that keeps these animals will someday get tagged.

-AzAtrox

Boy it will be really interesting to see the details of this one.
I'm glad he's o.k. but it sure sounds fishy to me!
Link

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It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens
Rapid City, SD.

www.reptilegardens.com

If its really his second time being bit he's not acting very proffesional..is he?
Would this be one of those "black eye's" for the hobby

No, this is his FIRST. We should not rush to judgement based on stories in the media.

I will comment on the bite, ONLY because the victim is a friend, and does not deserve any negative publicity.

Both handlers are very qualified and experienced handlers. One of the persons involved is probably in the top five of the qualified handlers in Florida. This was one of those fluke acidents. Yes, it could have been prevented (as ALL accidents could), but this incident in no way was due to any carelessness on the part of either handler. To my knowledge, this was the victims FIRST bite (not second mamba bite) You all will learn fast enough that you can not believe 50% of what the press writes. One of the stories written was so bad that the victim has a good case for slander or lible (and this may be persued). My point is this: Please do not make negative remarks about our fellow hobbyists based on media reports. It is always best to find out the FACTS first, then if you feel inclined to judge someone, at least you will have the actual facts so it does not make you look silly in the end ****This is not directed at psilocybe, this is just in general because I have been hearing a lot of silliness about this over the past few days***

Two more than qualified handlers were bagging a large black mamba Saturday morning. At some point there was an issue with the bag, so X backed away with the mamba safely controlled on a hook while Y leaned forward to fix the snake bag. When Y leaned forward the mamba struck and bit Y on the back of the head. Neither handler felt that the snake would have been able to reach Y at the point that Y leaned forward (or obviously Y would not have done so). This was a case of miscalculation that took both handlers off guard. This is a large Black Mamba (it was about 6 feet long when I gave it to X to care for over a year ago. It was one of my imports that came in in REAL bad shape. X did an excellent job getting it to its current condition and size) Again, Both are very respected in our community as venomous keepers.

Five vials of SAIMR antivenom were administered at a nearby hospital, and another 5 were administered after the victim was taken to a facility in Miami. Beacuse the patient responded well to the antivenom, and the fact that this was a minimal envenomation, and he was asymptomatic, the patient was able to go home the same evening, but was monitored by a friend (with medical knowledge) for an additional 24 hours or more.

The handlers implimented a good emergency protocol (in fact I was even called for additional antivenom) and the snake was secured. As useral, both handlers knew more about propper treatment than the attending physician.

I hope this clears up any confussion about this matter.

Ray Hunter

Hi Terry, Your Indians are doing great. Here are the details of the bite.

Two more than qualified handlers were bagging a large black mamba Saturday morning. At some point there was an issue with the bag, so X backed away with the mamba safely controlled on a hook while Y leaned forward to fix the snake bag. When Y leaned forward the mamba struck and bit Y on the back of the head. Neither handler felt that the snake would have been able to reach Y at the point that Y leaned forward (or obviously Y would not have done so). This was a case of miscalculation that took both handlers off guard. This is a large Black Mamba (it was about 6 feet long when I gave it to X to care for over a year ago. It was one of my imports that came in in REAL bad shape. X did an excellent job getting it to its current condition and size) Again, Both are very respected in our community as venomous keepers.

Five vials of SAIMR antivenom were administered at a nearby hospital, and another 5 were administered after the victim was taken to a facility in Miami. Beacuse the patient responded well to the antivenom, and the fact that this was a minimal envenomation, and he was asymptomatic, the patient was able to go home the same evening, but was monitored by a friend (with medical knowledge) for an additional 24 hours or more.

The handlers implimented a good emergency protocol (in fact I was even called for additional antivenom) and the snake was secured. As useral, both handlers knew more about propper treatment than the attending physician.

I hope this clears up any confussion about this matter.

Ray Hunter

a miscalculation huh....LMAO A miscalculation is when you cut a piece of wood to short..not when you get bit on the back of the head by a mamba...geeze

Miscalculation? sounds like a stupid handling error to me. If it was anyone else you guys would be ripping them to shreds.

.

Some of you people should be ashamed of yourselves! You're all just too smart for the rest of us! The error here is obvious, and I believe these senseless bashings offer little benefit. What possible good could come from this dialogue? Remember, the best thing you can do is show your support for the victim. I mean, we're talking about someone's life here. Again, the error is obvious. They are called, "accidents" for a reason. It seems to be the same 'ol names here every time too. Maybe one day we'll ALL read about you? More respect is in order. These rants don't make your precious hobby any better or any safer.

It's so easy to kick a man when he's already down. Let HE who has NEVER compromised HIS/HER OWN safety (when handling venomous snakes) cast the first stone! Otherwise, "cork it"!

Sean Palmer

Sean, I don't know if I was one of the ones that was directed towards, but if it was, please scroll down to see my response to the clear up the confusion post. It isn't my intent to wish any harm on any keeper.....except maybe a good bite by a gabby to someone who just ripped the glands out of it.

...on something I just posted in another reply:

These articles all say things like "the victim's roommate has a permit to handle poisonous snakes". Florida does not issue permits to "handle" venomous snakes. They issue permits to "possess" them. You do not need a permit to handle the snakes possessed by a permitted individual as long as they "authorize" you to do so, and in fact many very competent handlers do no have permits because they only work with snakes that are "possessed" by other people.

First clue: "Fox affiliate"
They report a lot of things a little "differently"
(which doesn't necessarily mean better.)
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Jeremy J. Anderson
Gem State Reptiles
HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY! HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY! HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY! HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY! HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY!

Every time I accidentally stall on their national channel, I can't help but laugh at that whole 'fair and balanced' b.s. Any more though I think they just throw that in peoples' faces just for spite.
-Chance
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Chance Duncan
1.1 Olive Pythons
1.1 Woma Pythons
1.1 Ball Pythons (Het Albino)
http://www.rivervalleysnakes.com

I just want to ask how the guy was doing?? Sean M. Kelly

Sorry for the redundancy, but this style of forum is a little different than what I am used to.

I will comment on the bite, ONLY because the victim is a friend, and does not deserve any negative publicity.

Both handlers are very qualified and experienced handlers. One of the persons involved is probably in the top five of the qualified handlers in Florida. This was one of those fluke acidents. Yes, it could have been prevented (as ALL accidents could), but this incident in no way was due to any carelessness on the part of either handler. To my knowledge, this was the victims FIRST bite (not second mamba bite) You all will learn fast enough that you can not believe 50% of what the press writes. One of the stories written was so bad that the victim has a good case for slander or lible (and this may be persued). My point is this: Please do not make negative remarks about our fellow hobbyists based on media reports. It is always best to find out the FACTS first, then if you feel inclined to judge someone, at least you will have the actual facts so it does not make you look silly in the end ****This is not directed at psilocybe, this is just in general because I have been hearing a lot of silliness about this over the past few days***

Two more than qualified handlers were bagging a large black mamba Saturday morning. At some point there was an issue with the bag, so X backed away with the mamba safely controlled on a hook while Y leaned forward to fix the snake bag. When Y leaned forward the mamba struck and bit Y on the back of the head. Neither handler felt that the snake would have been able to reach Y at the point that Y leaned forward (or obviously Y would not have done so). This was a case of miscalculation that took both handlers off guard. This is a large Black Mamba (it was about 6 feet long when I gave it to X to care for over a year ago. It was one of my imports that came in in REAL bad shape. X did an excellent job getting it to its current condition and size) Again, Both are very respected in our community as venomous keepers.

Five vials of SAIMR antivenom were administered at a nearby hospital, and another 5 were administered after the victim was taken to a facility in Miami. Beacuse the patient responded well to the antivenom, and the fact that this was a minimal envenomation, and he was asymptomatic, the patient was able to go home the same evening, but was monitored by a friend (with medical knowledge) for an additional 24 hours or more.

The handlers implimented a good emergency protocol (in fact I was even called for additional antivenom) and the snake was secured. As useral, both handlers knew more about propper treatment than the attending physician.

I hope this clears up any confussion about this matter.

Ray Hunter

Sure that was really clear, X and Y....glad you said it so often so the rest of us people would be sure to read it. Maybe their parents didnt like them or something, that why they named them x and y

I'm glad it helped you. Why do the names matter so much to you. It is the facts of the incident that matter, not the names. It was to protect them from ignorant people that like to sit in their security behind their computers passing judgement without the facts...know anyone like that? At leat their parents raised them not to be rude and ignorant.

that coming from a guy that calls a mamba bite a miscalculation.

And I'm sure you and Robin dont have any room to talk when it comes to handling elapids. Have you ever kept any yourselves including Dendro's? Judging by the way you talk I seriously doubt it. Why do some people feel its proper to bash someone that gets bit? You people are an absolute joke and we have no need for you in the venomous community.

Well you go on believing it was a miscalculation..LMAO

Hey he got bit,he is okay, move on

It is the one good thing to come of this is that he is doing well and is okay. Regardless of how and why the bite happened, I don't think anyone wants anyone to be harmed. I just wish people would be more careful and responsible, especially the ones in hot friendly states.

I'm not going to take the bait from this fool. I did not "call a mamba bite a miscalculation", I said that it was CAUSED BY a miscalculation. Perhaps some people should dedicate some of the time they use trying to pick silly fughts with people on the internet, to learning reading comprehension. Like FLVenom says, he probably does not have venomous.

Anyway, Here is a link to a better discription of the events of the ACCIDENT.

http://thereptileroom.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=2151&st=0&#entry20340entry20340

I'll try the link again.
Link

Sorry to keep posting on this, but I am unfamiliar with this forum. After clicking on link, you have to go to Snakegetters post. She has a much better account of what happened than I had posted.
Link

Arent all bites caused by miscaculations? What makes this different is you are trying to spin this and make is sound like no big deal...why am i not hearing all the talk about how the hobby is going to be ruined...i know i'd hear that if it wasnt your buddy. You guys sit here and tear others apart who get bit but when its one of your friends you try and smooth it over with bs and x and y.
And it doesnt take owning venomous to figure out that you are just trying to protect your friend.
And just since your so interested i do own a rattlesnake and have handled a few cobras, and other venomous...not sure why that matters but you seem to think it does.
Would you like a pic?

You show me ONE time when I EVER bashed or talked bad about someone that has been bitten. Show me ONE time where I have EVER said a bite is going to ruin the hobby. Go ahead, redeem yourself here and now. YOU CAN'T...because it has NEVER happened from me. So once again, you are sitting in the security of your home, behind your computer, passing judgement on someone you don't even know (me) and further more, the "BS" you are spewing is 100% wrong (again).

I don't need to protect anyone, because we don't feel like we need protection from people like you anyway. Why does it bother you so much when one member of a community stands up for their fellow hobbiest in their time of need. Should we rather take him out and stone him because he made a mistake? If it were a friend of yours, would you just sit by and watch people who have no idea what they are talking about, bash your friend just because he is human and made a mistake? If so, I thank God that I don't have friends like you. I was only trying to clear up the mess that the media started by posting what happened. For some reason, you (and only one other person) just started attacking me for doing so. It is as though you would have prefered the community to NOT know the facts of the event, and just let everyone believe the BS the paper wrote (which is far more damaging to the hobby than the actual facts of the event). After seeing how you have not yet posted someting accurate about me or what I say or said, I am convinced that that is the case.

I will not continue this silliness with you. Feel free (or should I say compelled) to post back so you can have the last word, I won't mess that up for you by posting again. You go ahead and believe whatever you want, and continue posting whatever you want (those that know me and matter to me know better). Meanwhile I will continue to strive to become as WOW as you.

Quit you lying and protecting the ignorant. Some of us know who was involved, why try to cover up the truth?
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Chad Bachman

Has anyone else gotten the true story from Florida fish and game? It is a public record, a phone call and fax are all that are needed to get all this coverup put down. I can't believe how much this woman is trying to distort the details.

What are you talking about. What cover up. The report says the two handlers were bagging the snake and one came too close and got bit. The post says the bitten guy came around the corner and bent over into a room with the mamba because he thought he heard the other guy say the snake was already bagged. Basically same story more details.

The first time you are bitten either because you make a mistake or because someone you are working with makes a mistake, I do not think you would like to be treated the same way you are treating others.

I will not mention any names, cuz the woman involved/responsible for the accident would throw a lawsuite quick.

I've done stupid things with hots, but never to the point where I ever, ever endangered another persons life. The only thing wrong with all this is it's a big coverup to protect the guilty person responsible for the bite (I guess it would ruin her reputation LOL).
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Chad Bachman

You don't know any of the keepers involved if you are making judgements like that. That is wrong on so many levels.

When someone who has had five years of experience working with venomous snakes gets bitten, who do you think is responsible?

1. The legal owner of the snake who told people they could bag it because they had a lot of experience with black mambas.

2. The person handling the mamba.

3. The person who stuck their head into the handling room and got bit because they thought they heard the handler say that the mamba was in a bag.

In some ways it's all of the above who share responsibility. But whose responsibility is it to make ugly remarks and spread gossip and rumors? I guess you think it's yours.

5 years? Wow they must know it all...LOL. Yeah, I know who was involved, and you must be one of her know it all followers.

The door should have been locked, NO QUESTIONS!!! It sounds good how you have the story, but I think it happened tad bit different.

Did I even post to you? Do you have a problem with me? If so, you know my name, look me up.

I post my name with my replies, cuz I have nothing to hide. I have always been man enough to apologize if I am wrong, but with this crap I doubt your gonna hear an apology from this ol boy.
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Chad Bachman

that really counts.

I've been critical of people before for bad judgement calls when working with venomous that ended in a bite or the very real possibility of one. Usually, this was because the person in question was demonstrating their stupidity quite well.

It doesn't appear this is what happened in this case. I have heard from several people of whom I hold in high regard, and all of them said the same thing, that the keepers were indeed very experienced handlers (some even going as far as to call the bite victim "one of the top five handlers in FL", and I respect these people enough to take their word for it.

Look, accidents happen. The initial story caught me off guard as well, I mean, how the hell do you get bitten in the back of the head???? Well, Ray Hunter did a good job of explaining the situation.

Miscalculation might have been too light of a word to describe what happened. Grave error might have been better. However, ANY ONE of us might have been capable of making the same such error in their situation, and since we don't know what exactly took place in the seconds before the bite, maybe we should be a tad bit more sympathetic to the individuals involved. I seriously doubt that some of the most respected keepers in this hobby are stepping up to the plate and defending this guy if they didn't sincerely believe he deserved to be defended.

One thing is certain: they knew exactly what they had to do in the seconds after the bite. A quick action plan was obviously implemented, and the bite victim survived, presumably no worse for the wear. Not to downplay the seriousness of the incident, but the back of the head isn't normally very fleshy (though there are some people who are real FATHEADS, as evidenced on this very forum), and it's possible the snake didn't really even inject that much venom. Bone is tough to inject stuff into. Hunter's post stated that the victim was asymptomatic.
This is all besides the point though.

I have no reason to doubt the individual involved was fully qualified to deal with venomous, and mambas specifically. However, even the MOST qualified person is still prone to making a mistake. We are after all human (at least most of us are, I have doubts about others).

Take care and be safe,

Abhishek Prasad

most of the news agencies reporting about the bite were wrong to the point of almost being guilty of libel. If you are basing your opinions on the news stories, you might want to find another source of information.