Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I also posted this in the Reticulated Python Forum. Hello.. I have a new snake room I built about a month ago in the basement. It measures about 11' x 11'. The outside walls are insulated but the floor is still concrete and is really cold. I live in Wisconsin. It holds 5 of the 96" freedom breeders. Right now I have an oil-filled heater in the room which keeps the upper half of the room at about 80-83 degrees and the bottom of the room, the problem, anywhere from 65 to 72 degrees. The heater is on hi and turned all the way up on the other dial. The ceiling is not finished. I have 5 reticulated pythons so i need the ambient temp on the bottom cages to be at least 75 degrees. Does anybody have any ideas how to maintain the proper ambient temp in the room. I am sure Chris "The Guru" Harper can help me...please. I have the temp controllers set to 99 for there hot spots that is with the probes touching the plastic above the 11" heat strips. But on top of the news paper it is about 95. I have large tupperware filled with moss for them to hide in on half of the heat source. There is a hole cut on one side of the lid and I spray the moss everyday. Their little humidity box. They love them. The only problem is they spend all of there time in there because of the low ambient temp on the other side of their cages. Two of them have started a slight weezing so I am taking them to the vet tomorrow. I just recieved them a week ago and two of them had weezing when I got them. Those are the two I put on the top cages. They are better now. The top cages on both sides of the room are ok. But the bottom two on one side and the bottom one on the other are too low. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I will post pics of the room tomorrow night.

Thanks,

Don
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1.0 Super Tiger 100% Het Albino "Lucky ME"
1.0 Lavender Phase Albino
0.1 White Phase Albino
0.2 "Big Honkin" Het Albino Normals

1.1 Stupid ankle biting Chihuahuas "snake food"
Don't look at me they are my fiances.

0.1 Beautiful 5 year old daughter.

0.1 Hot ass biotch "future wife"

Also, do you think the tupperware humidity boxes are enough? The humidity in the room is only at 20-25%. Any suggestions on how to raise the room humidity, if this is what should be done? I know they need 50-60% maybe that is why they are always in their boxes.
Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Don

---------------------
1.0 Super Tiger 100% Het Albino "Lucky ME"
1.0 Lavender Phase Albino
0.1 White Phase Albino
0.2 "Big Honkin" Het Albino Normals

1.1 Stupid ankle biting Chihuahuas "snake food"
Don't look at me they are my fiances.

0.1 Beautiful 5 year old daughter.

0.1 Hot ass biotch "future wife"

One if the Humid box is bult right It should be Ok as far as Humidity goes. The Retics probally spend there time in the Box because of less Ideal conditions. As far as the Basement goes I was in a similar situation as you. One way to elliviate your problem would be to insulate the floor in a similar matter as you insulated the walls. Put up joists and lay insulation underneath. If you used Polysterene (pink stuff) you can lay the Thinner stuff under the subfloor and not lose to much heigth. I couldn't affored to lose the hiegth so I didn't insulate the floor. Another method would be to install radient heat flooring but it can be expensive. Last Finish the ceiling that is where most of your heat is escaping through.

One the positive side I live in ND so I deal with cold winters as well. And with everything but the floor insulated My room stays at about 84'F. I use an Oil filled baseboard heater I got at Menards and It puts out 140'F radient heat rated at 1500W. So its possible to keep the room warm despite the floor. I also recommend keeping any cage at least 6" off the floor.
My 2 Cents
Jeremy

Thanks for your input Bighurt. It is much appreciated.

First, I'm not sure if I can provide an valuable input on the humidity issues given my minimal experience with the species you keep. I've kept them but it was in a fairly humid building so I did not have to worry about such things.

The oil-filled, radiator-style space heater should have no trouble heating that space.

Until recently my snake room was in an unheated, uninsulated garage. The ceiling did have a small amount of blown in cellulose, but that's it.

The room was 7'x7'x8' and had two exterior walls and two walls that were interior to the rest of the garage. The door was a typical hollow-core door.

Since it was only temporary I could not go all out on insulation. What I did was discover an insulation material called Reflectix which looks like bubble-wrap covered with aluminum foil. It has a minimal R value but is able to block 97% of radiant heat - the type of heat produced by your space heater.

I loosely stapled reflectix to the ceiling, walls, and the hollow door. I did not do anything to the bare concrete floor. The room ended up looking like this:

This picture was taken before covering the door and ceiling, but you get the point.

With this setup and a small ceiling fan I was able to heat that room to 85* with my space heater set to only 600 watts. The temperature of the lower boxes was just a few degrees cooler than the boxes set on top of the rack. That was a height difference of over 5'.

When the temperatures dropped to 20* below zero the space heater still did it's job and still at 600 watts. Due to amperage concerns in the rest of the garage I had to shut the ceiling fan off and only during the coldest periods did I have to stop keeping snakes on the bottom most level of my rack.

So my point of this lengthy reply is to preach the issues of insulation with a reflective component.

The outside walls are insulated...

You mean exterior walls, correct? Do you know what type of insulation was used?

Are the walls interior to the rest of the basement uninsulated?

... but the floor is still concrete and is really cold.

Do you have the money, time, and interest in finishing the floor?

The ceiling is not finished.

This will make a huge difference, especially if you can add a reflective insulation on your ceiling where it's most important. DO NOT just go out and buy regular insulation. Radiant heat is very good at passing through normal means of insulation.

If I were you I'd start with finishing the ceiling. I have several ideas on how to do this but pictures will help. I'd also add a small ceiling fan.

Insulating the floor would be great but let's start with the ceiling. And if those interior walls are not insulated you should do them as well.

I don't recommend stapeling Reflectix to the walls, but you may have to do so to the already-insulated and finished exterior walls.

BTW, my new snake room is 9'x17' and is in the back of my third garage stall. It is mostly below grade as our house is built into a steep hill. I framed the room out with 2x4's and for insulation just used the 1.5" foil-covered poly-iso insulation board. I shoved it into the stud bays so that there would be an air space inbetween the drywall and the insulation. This air space is very important. I also have a slight air space behind the insulation. This is also important, albeit not as important as the air space in front.

The ceiling just has normal attic batting. I need to add Reflectix before next winter.

For the floor I just laid treated 2x4's on their side and shot them into the concrete. I then shoved 3/4" foil-covered poly-iso all the way to the concrete, therby leaving a 3/4" air space between my subfloor and the insulation face. Then 3/4" plywood subfloor and linoluem.

Even on our coldest days here in South Dakota my vertical temperature gradient has been no more than 2*. And that's measured over the entire 8'2" of the height of the room.

The vertical temperature gradiant of the space actually occuped by cages in only 1*. That's about 6' so still pretty impressive.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I used R11 or R13 for the exterior walls. The interior walls are not insulated now but I assure you they will be tomorrow. LOL. I don't have the time to finish the floor but will have to make time shortly. I know the 3/4" foil covered insulation you are talking about. Where can I get the "Reflectix" you refered to for the ceiling and walls? That would help alot. Thanks again for you lengthy reply as have learned alot from it.

Thanks,

Don
---------------------
1.0 Super Tiger 100% Het Albino "Lucky ME"
1.0 Lavender Phase Albino
0.1 White Phase Albino
0.2 "Big Honkin" Het Albino Normals

1.1 Stupid ankle biting Chihuahuas "snake food"
Don't look at me they are my fiances.

0.1 Beautiful 5 year old daughter.

0.1 Hot ass biotch "future wife"

>>The interior walls are not insulated now but I assure you they will be tomorrow. LOL.

You best choice, IMO, is to find the 1.5" or 2" thick foil-faced poly-iso.

I took three measurements of each of my stud bays and then used a drywall saw to cut each strip. Then each piece was shoved into the wall so that there would be at least a 1.5" airspace between the drywall and the foil - on the snake room side. I did my best to leave an air space behind as well. It was a pain but well worth it. I used expanded foam to fill in any gaps between the insulation and the studs.

If that sounds like something you don't want to mess with then I suggest looking for foil-faced batting. Make sure to shove it in a bit so you have that air space between the drywall and the foil.

>>Where can I get the "Reflectix" you refered to for the ceiling and walls?

I believe they have Menards in Wisconsin, correct? That's where I bought mine.

Regardless, you may not even need it. You could put it over the batting in the walls but it won't work as well as it should due to the lack of an air space. And I believe the foil-faced batting will be cheaper than using a cheap batting plus the Reflectix.

Using it in the ceiling will be most effective, but I'd really have to see pictures of the ceiling as is before making that recommendation. The foil-faced polyiso may work there as well.

Really what's important here is to use a foil-faced product, whether it be batting, insulation board, or Reflectix plus something else.

You also want to keep an air space in front of the foil that will be facing the snake side of the room.

Don't use the Reflectix by itself like I did. That was only a temporary solution.

Regarding the floor, I hate to say it but it really makes sense to do it now before insulating and finishing the walls.

Maybe I should wait to see pictures before making more suggestions.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I guess I screwed up. Three of the walls already have drywall on them. One of those is an iterior wall which still has an open back and I can get at. For the two exterior walls can I still use Reflectix or similar, "cheaper", foil over the drywall, kind of like in you pic? As for the ceiling, I have a duct that is below the floor joists to work around along with a small gas pipe that follows above and along the joists then pops down below and perpendicular to them. I think I will try to use the foil faced insulation for the ceiling like you suggested. I can't get a pic right now as I am at work. LOL. Thanks you for all of your input.

Don
---------------------
1.0 Super Tiger 100% Het Albino "Lucky ME"
1.0 Lavender Phase Albino
0.1 White Phase Albino
0.2 "Big Honkin" Het Albino Normals

1.1 Stupid ankle biting Chihuahuas "snake food"
Don't look at me they are my fiances.

0.1 Beautiful 5 year old daughter.

0.1 Hot ass biotch "future wife"

Hi Don,

First let me say something I neglected to say in my previous posts. You do not want to use foil-faced insulation board out in the open. It must be covered with drywall or another fire resistant covering. If you don't and your burn your house down you'll likely void your homeowners insurance.

Reflectix or other foil/bubble insulations can be used out in the open. But I think you can avoid that and I'm sure you don't want your room looking like the inside of a space ship

Secondly, don't worry too much about not having the reflective component (foil) on your walls. As I understand it the foil is most effective on ceilings and floors - horizontal surfaces. If you were starting from scratch I'd suggest it for the walls as well, but given where you're at I wouldn't fret over it.

You'd be better off spending the money to insulate the floor.

Now with that said, let me see if I have this straight.

1) There are two exterior walls which have batting and are drywalled.

2) Then there is one interior wall that is NOT insulated but is drywalled on both sides.

3) Then the remaining interior wall in NOT insulated by is only drywalled on one side and can still be insulated.

4) The ceiling has no insulation, no drywall.

Are one thru four correct?

If so, here is what I would do.

1) Insulate the already sheet-rocked wall. That can either be done with a blower or by tearing the drywall down on one side. I understand it's actually cheaper to tear the drywall down but if it were me I'd rent the blower.

2) Place batting into the back of the already insulated wall. The only issue with this is that you'll have to put the batting in "backwards" so the vapor barrier side is facing the snake room.

In that regard it might be best to buy some of the foil faced poly iso and shove it into those cavities. Again, keep the air space between the foil and the drywall on the snake room side.

4) Find out what code is for insulating the floor joists between your basement and first floor. To keep things simple you might go ahead and shove batting into the joists and then cover that with stapled on Reflectix. It will make it easier to go around those pipes and ducts. At least for now.

The potential problem here is that the Reflectix acts as a vapor barrier and there might be code against that in your basement situation. The concern is moisture getting trapped between the floor joists and causing rot.

5) Insulate the floor. I won't go into more details until I know you want to do this.
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Current snakes:

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

3.3 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

2.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

3.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)