Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I live in Florida and would like to add to our colony of C. guttata. As best I can tell, only two states within its range do not protect spots, FL and SC.

If I were approached by someone from VA, for example, about buying spotteds, should I be concerned that I could be prosecuted because I'm doing something perfectly ok in FL, but sale is prohibited in VA?

IS it illegal to sell spotteds in VA (assuming captive bred), even with a permit? I suppose an even greater question would be, why would you purchase an animal from someone conducting illegal business, period.

Could you call US Fish and Wildlife (without giving a name) to find the answer?

Katrina

...Virginia allows the possession of up to five spotted turtles, but does not allow them to be sold...

The problem is that there is no definitive resource to figure out what EXACTLY is legal or illegal; however, if one makes a mistake, then one still has to pay the price.

If he cant have them, and you send them to him, you are in violation of the lacey act.

Thanks, but that's not my question.

In my question, I ask whether it is a violation for me to buy them (regardless of it being perfectly legal to do so in my home state) since it's illegal for someone in VA to sell them.

Spotted turtles are now protected by State Regulation in SC. They are listed as a "Species in need of Management", an official designation under our State Endangered Species Act, and their possession is covered under regulation. An individual may apply for a free permit to possess up to nine adult, wild-caught spotted turtles in SC. No spotted turtles over 4" may be offered for sale in SC, spotted turtles under 4" inches may be sold in accordance with current USDA laws. The permit is renewable on a yearly basis with a requirement to report any births, deaths and sales of captive-bred babies (under 4".

We are currently not issuing permits to non-SC residents, although that may change in the future.

Steve Bennett
Herpetlogist
SCDNR

I'm a bit confused. I thought the USDA DID NOT regulate reptiles, with the exception of tick-free vet certificates for certain African tortoises.

Katrina

Posted by: herpsc at Wed May 21 14:56:01 2003 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Spotted turtles are now protected by State Regulation in SC. They are listed as a "Species in need of Management", an official designation under our State Endangered Species Act, and their possession is covered under regulation. An individual may apply for a free permit to possess up to nine adult, wild-caught spotted turtles in SC. No spotted turtles over 4" may be offered for sale in SC, spotted turtles under 4" inches may be sold in accordance with current USDA laws. The permit is renewable on a yearly basis with a requirement to report any births, deaths and sales of captive-bred babies (under 4".

We are currently not issuing permits to non-SC residents, although that may change in the future.

Steve Bennett
Herpetlogist
SCDNR

If you buy a species that is protected in the state the you are purchasing it from and either transport it or have it shipped across state lines without a permit, then both you and the seller have violated the Lacey Act.

If the seller obtains the animals in the state where they are protected, then BRINGS them to Florida and sells them to you under false pretenses (tells you they are Florida animals) then HE has violated the Lacey Act. If you buy them knowing that they were illegally transported across state lines, then BOTH of you have violated the Lacey Act.

.

As I read it, the Lacey Act not a specific intent statute. Therefore, purchase of an animal in violation of the law is not exempted by a mistake of fact--i.e. not intent to break the law is necessary to break the law.
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Homer W. Faucett III, esq.
Purveyor of Trivialities and Fine Nonsense

As a member of the state animal advisory review board I can assure you that spotted turtles as now afforded complete protection in the state of South Carolina. Residents can apply for a permit for possession. Captive born spotteds may be sold. No wild caught spotted turtles may leave the state without express SCDNR permission.

As a member of the state animal advisory review board I can assure you that spotted turtles as now afforded complete protection in the state of South Carolina. Residents can apply for a permit for possession. Captive born spotteds may be sold. No wild caught spotted turtles may leave the state without express SCDNR permission.

My original question arose from the fact that there are many classified posts both here on kingsnake and on other sites where people from Virginia (a state that supposedly protects spots) offer them for sale.

My advice would be for the buyer to determine if the animals are captive bred, and the appropriate permits for exporting them from the state are present.

Oh, for the person in regards to the USDA guidelines on herps....turtles under a certain size may NOT be sold. You can give them away, but you cannot sell them. This is why you never see the little silver-dollar sized RES in pet stores any longer. It was intended to prevent sale of turtles small enough for children to fit them in their mouth to help prevent salmonella! Ridiculous, of course, if your child is putting animals in their mouth, they ought to be more closely supervised, you don't ban the animal. However, it's been good for the turtles--small children don't kill thousands of babies any longer. It's a bit of an annoyance for turtle breeders who must grow their neonates up to the legal size before selling them, even in tiny quantities to other breeders.

Actually, I don't think it's your responsibility to check what state your buyers are from--it's theirs. So long as you are physically in Florida, you need only be concerned with Florida's and the Federal laws.
You might want to check anyhow, if you feel it's ethically important to do so, but you don't legally have to.