Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a trio of Mexican Black kings and i'm makeing an attept at breeding the larger female. I started 10 days ago and they hooked up 3 times that night the first was 25 mintes the second was 45 minutes and the last one of the night was 3 hrs and 30 minutes ( i stayed up watching them like a hawk it was 4 am when they seperated lol). I fed her afterwards and offerd the male some food but he didn't want any , just water is all he wanted ( sound familiar guys lol ). 3 days later i put him in her cage again and they hooked up for about 15 minutes and that was it that time. Then 3 days after that i put him back in and they hooked up for about 1 hour. I put him in her cage about 45 minutes ago and theres no activity like before the male just went up to her ran his head up and down her body and nothing there just kicken it now. Once i seperate them tonite i was going to offer her a small meal. So how do i know if she took. This is my first ever attempt at breeding kings so i'm new at this. everything i read said to incubate the eggs at 80-82 degrees is that correct with equal weights of water and ohh what is it vermiculite. Also i need to put a humid hide box for eggs in there to right and if she is prego can i take her out to clean the cage or do i just wait it out. Thanks Paul

Ok, pair them up a few more times over the next 2 weeks. Within a month or two, maybe a little more, you'll notice she's getting bigger, especially in the last 2/3rds of her body. If she's gravid of course...

Some people(most people) put a hidebox packed with moss and vermiculite into the enclosure, I just take the eggs out of the enclosure when she lays. You can get vermiculite, or perlite(practically the same thing) at Wal Mart(where I get mine) and you can also get the egg laying hidebox there as well(rubbermaid containers). Just put the perlite about an inch deep in the egg laying box, or in the incubator, put a water bowl on one side, and put a heat pad under that one side. The water will evaporate, and if the evaporation cannot escape the box, it will become humid inside. I never just mix equal weights or whatever of water and vermiculite and I've had much success.

Mike
Michael's Place

-----
Michael's Place has updated, better caresheets
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
Helmz777@aol.com
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake

...skip the vermiculite in the lay box. Sometimes the female will root around quite a bit and the vermiculite can get all over her and in her nose and throat. It leaves a residue and although I haven't a clue if it can cause any harm, one of my Cal kings got so much in her resp. tract, it did cause her some problems for a while.
I use the vermiculite as the base of my incubation boxes then place the eggs on it covered by moist sphagnum moss.
my 2 cents
:Mark

I'm thinking of trying it in the laying box this year.

-----
Bob Bull
1.1 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.getula GA locality
1.3 L.g.getula albino
1.2 L.g.getula het albino
1.2 L.g.getula P-het albino
1.3 L.g.floridana "Brooksi"
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo

Perlite is abrasive and not well suited for a lay box. I use it for incubating my eggs but use vermiculite in my lay boxes. It is tough to find, but there is a large grade of vermiculite with pieces that are about 1/4 inch and less likely to be ingested or aspirated. I get mine from shipments we get here at the university. That small stuff you get at the nursery can cause problems, not commonly but it does happen. You could just use moss in the lay box.

RE the initial poster, I believe it is more like 40 days from ovulation to egg laying for most Colubrids. Kerby or some other large breeder of getula might have more species specific data. Your female should be good to go by now considering a female's ability to store sperm. You might wait 5-7 days and try introducing them one more time but it probably will not matter at this point. I would keep offering food though until she refuses.
-----
Rick Staub
R&R Reptiles

My females tend to lay around 40 days after the first copulation. Lots of variability, of course but that's the most common outcome.

I put damp (immersed, soaked a couple minutes, then wrung out by hand) sphagnum moss (the STRINGY kind, that's important) in a plastic box, Fluffed up, it fills the box to the top, the entry hole is cut out of the lid. The female lays in there, i remove the box and eggs, replace the entry lid with a solid lid, and incubatge the eggs right in that box and that medium on a shelf in my snake room, which is at about 80 degrees. I keep the boxes relatively air tight (no air holes) to keep fruit flies out. Every 2-3 days i remove the lid, fan fresh air into the box and replace the lid. It's simple and it's worked for me. You just have to watch when hatching is due and remove the babies within 24 hours to ventilated housing.

Terry
Albino Tricolors

I plan on offering her some food tom. There was no action with them today but i will try again in 5 to 7 days like one of you said. Thanks alot Paul

I use vermiculite (large flakes) for the lay box and for incubation. I've found that it takes around 5-7 weeks to lay eggs from last copulation, although last year I had a cal king (High White Reverse Stripe) that was bred on April 7th,11th & 16th and didn't lay her eggs until July 2nd. 77 days from last copulation. I will admit that this case is an exception. Some other stats from last year:
Unfortunately I use a dry erase board for this info in my snakeroom and had water spilled on it, so not all the clutches are represented. But this will give you an idea. I also raised cornsnakes and pyros last year with no recorded data.

California Kingsnakes;
Bred on: April 11th, & 16th - Laid eggs on May 22nd
Bred on: April 11th, 16th, & 19th - Laid eggs on May 23rd
Bred on: April 14th & 19th - Laid eggs on May 24th
Bred on: April 11th & 16th - Laid on May 25th
Bred on: April 7th & 19th - Laid on May 27th
Bred on: April 11th & 19th - Laid on June 1st
Bred on: April 13th & 19th - Laid on June 2nd
Bred on: April 14th & 16th - Laid on June 3rd
Bred on: April 11th & 19th - Laid on June 3rd
Bred on: April 7th, 11th, 16th & 19th - Laid on June 6th
Bred on: April 7th, 14th & 19th - Laid on June 12th
Bred on: April 14th & 16th - Laid on June 14th
Bred on: April 19th & 21st - Laid on June 16th
Bred on: April 11th & 21st - Laid on June 22nd
Bred on: April 7th, 11th & 16th - Laid on July 2nd

Not complete, but hopefully has some useful info.

Kerby...

I would, but as stated, many of my snakes root around and just mess it up anyway.
I only use the vermiculite or perlite for a stable "bed" to lay the eggs or mass of eggs on.
I used to use just damp newsprint when I was a kid---no problems at all. Even sphagnum PEAT moss!
A friend incubated his eggs alternatively with sponge-like material and nothing at all with no noticeble difference from what I was doing hatch-wise.
So I really don't think the incubation material, if any, makes a heck of a lot of difference. I just don't need anything else in the LAY box.
I've seen others use no lay box at all. hmmmm.
:Mark

Here's my proposal for this year.

I keep damp sphagnum moss inside the hide box all year round (except for the nigrita which does not use it if offered). I will freshen the moss as soon as the bred females shed. I'll then transfer any eggs into airtight(drysophila proof) containers with a bed of either saturated vermiculite or perlite. I've got both so i'll start a run of "experiments" for the next few years and evaluate them both.

Is the ratio of water weight to perlite weight 1:1 as it is with vermiculite?
-----
Bob Bull
1.1 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.getula GA locality
1.3 L.g.getula albino
1.2 L.g.getula het albino
1.2 L.g.getula P-het albino
1.3 L.g.floridana "Brooksi"
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo

Hi Bob,

What I like about perlite is that it holds its shape better and allows for more air around the eggs. Also, I tend to keep my eggs on the dry side and rely more on humidity generated from misting the lid of the container every 5-7 days. I have had zonata eggs absorb so much moisture that they split. Typically I add enough water to the perlite so that when I crush it between my fingers I can barely feel the moisture. Not very scientific but it works. I bury the eggs for about 5 days to provide higher humidity so that they can absorb moisture while they chalk up. After that I uncover them and just monitor them for the remainder of the incubation and just mist the lid of the container. Sometimes if they get a little dry, they might dent in a little, and I just spray the lid more often for a couple days and they do just fine. Sometimes they swell back up but not always. Most eggs will shed moisture before they hatch, so keeping them on the dry side throughout the incubation just makes it easier for them at hatching. If you keep them too wet you can actually drown the snake in the egg by not allowing it to shed excess moisture before hatching. This probably accounts for some of the full term dead in the egg occurences.

I am not sure why everyone is so fearful of the dreaded flies. I have had them on some eggs especially when those eggs had incompletely shelled ends, but couldn't say that they actually did any harm. Some of these eggs had maggots crawling on their ends, yet still hatched. A good egg typically hatches. A friend accidently dropped a clutch of Sinaloan eggs into a bucket of water -- they hatched. I patched one of those split zonata eggs with joint compound and it hatched.

I also like to fluctuate the temps but that is another topic.
-----
Rick Staub
R&R Reptiles

I have used perlite for my scarlet king and corn eggs for years and haven't had any problems. I use it in the nest box and after she lays take it out and tape the hole up to incubate the eggs.

At least you could have deleted the misinformation also. Or left the posts that corrected it.
-----
Rick Staub
R&R Reptiles

>>At least you could have deleted the misinformation also. Or left the posts that corrected it.
>>-----
>>Rick Staub
>>R&R Reptiles
-----
Rick Staub
R&R Reptiles