Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a lot of african rock pythons and I think that they are one of the most amazing python species in many different ways. Yet we don't have a forum for african rock pythons. I personally think that there should be more awareness for the rock pythons and that even people that don't have them would enjoy reading about them if there were a forum devoted solely to them. I would post about them in the "python forum", but any posts there are soon lost amidst the ever-so-many, almost vacuous posts about scrubs and other similar arboreal species. I would REALLY like to have an african rock forum. So can we have a show of hands for anyone else that would like this? Or at the very least maybe nobody would mind if we could post in the burm forum about them, should kingsnake not oblige us with this forum. There's something about them being the third giant that just feels wrong posting about them amongst the skinny arboreals that dominate that forum. [no offense intended to those with the arboreals. I have them and appreciate them too. I just think that rocks deserve their own place]
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

The anacondas have one and that forum is dead. I go in there just like you said to read about things that I dont have. I have not seen a new post in a week and the one I did see was someone just saying it was dead, it cant be any slower than that. I don't mind them posting things in here. I thought that the Rock python was also a burm, at least thats what I got from the animal planet on that big sqeeze thing or big joke thing I should say. Is that correct that that Rocks are also burms they called them burmese rock pythons???

Are Rocks really that aggressive or does it depend on the individual, i have heard more stories about Rocks than anything.

Sometimes you will see burms referred to as burmese rock pythons or even Indian rock pythons. You'll also see them called just plain old Indian pythons -- some shows just don't make the distinction between the sub-species of python molurus.

RP

No, the rock is not a burmese. Sometimes burmese are refered to as burmese rock pythons is all. But they are a different species, from a different continent altogether.

Rock pythons are very widely misunderstood. People often expect them to be similar to a burmese, but they are entirely different. When one understands the differences then one can better deal with a rock. Sure, they can be aggressive. But not all of them. Just like a few burms are mean as hell. But I would venture to say that most rocks would *appear* to be aggressive. I say this because they tend to demonstrate a lot of bluff and intimidation. They can be very territorial with their cages/environment and will bluff one that comes near it or in it. Take the same snake out and it's calm as a kitten and once again mostly indifferent. The males can be exceedingly territorial and they often put on a huge show of hissing and posturing in a strike position. But it usually means little or nothing. It's all bluff. I theorize that being from africa they evolved in a land infested with ENORMOUS animals of every type [elephants, rhinos, girafes, hippos, lions, leopards, wildebeasts, cape buffalo, cheetahs, primates, babboons, crocodiles, etc, etc, etc] and that this loud, demonstrative posturing or show of power and intimidation may keep these otherwise harmfull animals at bay. In other words, evolutionarily speaking,.. the ones that did this throughout the last 20 million years survived the eons and passed the trait that gives them the tendency to be threatening when approached. Man! That one is hard to explain. But did I make any sense? I'll ty again if I failed. But the point is,.. no,. the thing mostly mistaken for outright aggression is all bluff that is deeply ingrained in their instinct, for self preservation. ..... (whew!)

All in all though,. african rocks are incredibly complex and interesting snakes. And I would like to be able to bring them to peoples' attention that don't already know about them, OR have the wrong idea about them.

>>The anacondas have one and that forum is dead. I go in there just like you said to read about things that I dont have. I have not seen a new post in a week and the one I did see was someone just saying it was dead, it cant be any slower than that. I don't mind them posting things in here. I thought that the Rock python was also a burm, at least thats what I got from the animal planet on that big sqeeze thing or big joke thing I should say. Is that correct that that Rocks are also burms they called them burmese rock pythons???
>>
>>Are Rocks really that aggressive or does it depend on the individual, i have heard more stories about Rocks than anything.
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

I didn't mean to discourage interest in African rocks. I just parlayed my experiences with the ones I had, which was admittedly several years ago. However, I saw little bluff at all -- mine meant business and proved it many times. But that in and of itself makes them interesting animals. They are not burms, or even retics for that matter. They may command even more respect than retics. But people need to know the big picture about these (and other) snakes. I would venture that African rocks are better suited for more advanced herpetoculturists who have had lots of experience with big snakes. And a potential African rock owner with experience with a few bigger snakes with attitudes has a leg up on those who have only dealt with tame burms, etc.

I have checked around on some price lists lately, several of which advertise very tame African rocks. So maybe the aggression I encountered a few years ago is being bred out as more and more captive snakes are hatched.

They are a handful, and if one does feel ready to take the plunge, he (or she) must not be easily intimidated. African rock pythons can be very intimidating animals. But at the same time, keeping one, especially taming a baby, can be a very rewarding experience.

RP

I haven't kept them but I've heard of their reptuations, as you have also mentioned. I'm not inclined to keep African Rocks but would still like to hear about them from others. I hear African Rock and I remember the little boy that was cosntricted by his family's pet up north somewhere about 4 years ago. Anyone else remember that? Dave Barker testified at the parent's trial. I probably need to hear some good stories to get out of my biased opinion on them.
-----
Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles
GiantFeeders

That is a rare scenario. And while it is sad, and it did happen,.. try also to remember that maybe 57 other families lost thier kid to a trusted family dog that same year. While equally depressing, it helps to put this into proper perspective. I personally have NEVER known anyone that has died or lost someone to a reptile, ANY reptile, poisonous or otherwise, but I do know a few people that lost their children to dogs, horses, and numerous non-animal related deaths. I hope this helps,.. even though I know that you already knew this. I still felt the need to post it.

>>I haven't kept them but I've heard of their reptuations, as you have also mentioned. I'm not inclined to keep African Rocks but would still like to hear about them from others. I hear African Rock and I remember the little boy that was cosntricted by his family's pet up north somewhere about 4 years ago. Anyone else remember that? Dave Barker testified at the parent's trial. I probably need to hear some good stories to get out of my biased opinion on them.
>>-----
>>Marcia Pimentel
>>Tango River Reptiles
>>GiantFeeders
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

Oh I know. I can rationalize it but that incident is engraved in my mind. I was emotionally walloped by the tragedy, perhaps because I am a parent and a giant keeper. I still want to hear about African Rocks and learn about them and I hope one day I can hear the name and not think back to that tragedy. If you ask me to name another fatality with a snake I would be unable to- it is this one that really hit me.
-----
Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles
GiantFeeders

Oh I know. I can rationalize it but that incident is engraved in my mind. I was emotionally walloped by the tragedy, perhaps because I am a parent and a giant keeper. I still want to hear about African Rocks and learn about them and I hope one day I can hear the name and not think back to that tragedy. If you ask me to name another fatality with a snake I would be unable to- it is this one that really hit me.
-----
Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles
GiantFeeders

If your goal is to encourage interest it seems the worst possible way to do that would be to remove what tiny amount of discussion there is about them to its own graveyard of a forum that nobody would ever visit.

>>If your goal is to encourage interest it seems the worst possible way to do that would be to remove what tiny amount of discussion there is about them to its own graveyard of a forum that nobody would ever visit.
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

np

help get this into motion. Just a thought.

Where are you Bonnie??

>>The anacondas have one and that forum is dead. I go in there just like you said to read about things that I dont have. I have not seen a new post in a week and the one I did see was someone just saying it was dead, it cant be any slower than that. I don't mind them posting things in here. I thought that the Rock python was also a burm, at least thats what I got from the animal planet on that big sqeeze thing or big joke thing I should say. Is that correct that that Rocks are also burms they called them burmese rock pythons???
>>
>>Are Rocks really that aggressive or does it depend on the individual, i have heard more stories about Rocks than anything.
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

The dead anaconda forum doesn't exactly present an attractive argument for starting an african rock forum. Quite the opposite.

They want to make one big forum for all of us so we can all learn. It first started out asking if they should have one, and I think everyone agrees that one big forum would be beneficial to all of us. I hope this caught you up to speed, since you cleary did not read all the posts.

I have had several African rock pythons, though I do not have any now. The mighty African rock remains the only python that I've had in my 12 years of keeping snakes that has ever gotten the better of me. I am fascinated by them, but that one big one I had was nasty, nasty, nasty and nasty some more. (I had a few smaller ones that were fairly tame, but had other issues.) After I got rid of that big one, I said I would never have another one. So far, I haven't. I made the mistake of using him in a presentation in front of 120 Boy Scouts at a day camp. The snake went crazy, defecated on me, took a plug out of my left forearm and then wrapped defensively around my right arm. I don't know whether the Boy Scouts were amused or terrified -- probably a mixture of both emotions!

I figure African rocks are a lot like retics used to be. Several years ago, retics had a reputation for being aggressive, but it seems that much of that aggression has been bred out of them as more captive bred babies become available. The same will happen with African rocks, if it isn't happening already. I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility of getting another one, but it would have to be trustworthy enough to be shown in front of an audience.

That being said, I have had quite a bit of experience with these snakes, and would enjoy talking more about them. I got a big kick out Jeff Corwin's encounter with that angry African rock on Animal Planet. That was one mad snake! He/she had Jeff jumping around like a clown!

They are beautiful snakes, very interesting and of course enormous. Very cool snakes, but -- at least in my experience (which was admittedly several years ago) -- a little on the aggressive side.

RP

Sounds like you have had your share of rock experiences. I too have gone through the good and bad experiences with numerous individuals. In the 70's and 80's I had kept over 20 rocks easily, but only one was tame and it was a great big male. He was so tame I often wondered if he had some form of brain damage, lol. Like NO response to stimuli sometimes, he was so kicked back. The others all resided on the other end of the spectrum and would try everything in their power to hurt me. They were all imports back then except the big tame guy. But the most aggressive one of them all was a little 9 or 10 foot male. He would lunge at the cage wall (glass) any time I was in view. If I opened the cage he would launch at me, mouth wide open, "swimming" across the carpet to bite me. I would always capture him and handle him with relative ease, which would make him hate me even more. But yes, those imports were what I would call, "untamable".

Nowadays, every rock python I have, male or female is basically tame, though highly territorial. When I go to remove any of them from their cages they immediately begin to hiss and go into their "posturing" or raising off the ground and facing me. Knowing it is bluff I just ignore it and grab them. At this point they forget about scaring me and try to go further into their cage, but by this time I have them out and they are fairly calm about it. Now,.. neither of the breeders that I got my present breeding stock from took any time with these rocks to calm them or tame them. I got some as yearlings and others as 2 year olds. So I would think that they likely wouldn't even posture and bluff if they had been worked with as youngsters. And I expect them to calm dramatically with time.

About you getting bitten and attacted while doing a presentation,.. there does seem to be something about rock pythons when they are taken outside. One of my larger males goes balistic when he is taken outside. I think that maybe their instict may kick in when they smell out of doors smells. Was your presentation in an outdoors area? Just curious.

Thanks for your input.

>>I have had several African rock pythons, though I do not have any now. The mighty African rock remains the only python that I've had in my 12 years of keeping snakes that has ever gotten the better of me. I am fascinated by them, but that one big one I had was nasty, nasty, nasty and nasty some more. (I had a few smaller ones that were fairly tame, but had other issues.) After I got rid of that big one, I said I would never have another one. So far, I haven't. I made the mistake of using him in a presentation in front of 120 Boy Scouts at a day camp. The snake went crazy, defecated on me, took a plug out of my left forearm and then wrapped defensively around my right arm. I don't know whether the Boy Scouts were amused or terrified -- probably a mixture of both emotions!
>>
>>I figure African rocks are a lot like retics used to be. Several years ago, retics had a reputation for being aggressive, but it seems that much of that aggression has been bred out of them as more captive bred babies become available. The same will happen with African rocks, if it isn't happening already. I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility of getting another one, but it would have to be trustworthy enough to be shown in front of an audience.
>>
>>That being said, I have had quite a bit of experience with these snakes, and would enjoy talking more about them. I got a big kick out Jeff Corwin's encounter with that angry African rock on Animal Planet. That was one mad snake! He/she had Jeff jumping around like a clown!
>>
>>They are beautiful snakes, very interesting and of course enormous. Very cool snakes, but -- at least in my experience (which was admittedly several years ago) -- a little on the aggressive side.
>>
>>RP
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

That particular presentation was done indooors, in a middle school gym. I never had that African rock outside. He was unpredictable -- some days he was very good, others he was quite bad. When I decided to show him, he had been a good streak for quite a while. I thought that maybe I had tamed him down. Not so -- he went nuts that day around those kids. In retrospect, none of the kids were ever in any danger -- the snake tried to flee to the rear of the gym. Most of what took place happened with my back turned to the audience. Looking back, it was pretty funny. But in close quarters, like a classroom, it could have been very bad.

I never showed that snake again, and wound up selling it to a nearby zoo. After the zoo paid me and I placed the snake in his new cage (a big walk in enclosure), I walked around to the front of the cage to take one last look at the snake. He turned his head and saw me just as a group of children came through the reptile house and charged the glass as hard as he could. He struck at me through the glass, banged his mouth up and just stared at me through the cage. I grabbed the container I brought him in and headed out of the reptile house as quickly as I could! I was afraid the curator might send the snake back with me!

That was one ornery snake. I've sort of had the itch to get a baby retic to add to my collection, and if we get to talking about rocks here, I'll probably start wanting another one of them. My wife wouldn't like that very much.

And for the record, I would like to see burms, retics, rocks, and anacondas on the same forum. Traffic on the retic and anaconda forum can be slow. It would be nice to have all the big snakes on one location.

RP

Yes, your account of the "zoo incident" sounds so "african rock". I personally feel that they are the most intelligent of the pythons and I have also seen ample evidence to indicate that they have the best vision/depth perception of the large boids (haven't compared it to that of the arboreals) so the fact that he could recognize you personally from a distance, I have no doubt. My rocks today, while all tame and very predictable,... to the point where their antics are cute,... study me all the time. Even when I am across the room cleaning someone else's cage, I will look up and see one of them or more watching me with genuine interest. It's almost creepy at times. And when the males do their territortial posturing,. it's almost as if it is a game that they enjoy playing. I know this may sound crazy, but they really seem to like "playing the whole game". I detect real interest in this beyond just trying to intimidate me. You'd probably have to see it in person if you haven't witnessed it already. And by the way Robert, I can't advertise here, but I do have a "guaranteed tame" policy on ALL snakes. Just a point of record. That tame rocks are (or will be soon) available. But many other breeders have tame rocks available too, even if they don't offer that guarantee.

Anyhow, enough said,.. but I REALLY like your idea for a "Giant Constrictors" forum. Man,. it's PERFECT!

>>That particular presentation was done indooors, in a middle school gym. I never had that African rock outside. He was unpredictable -- some days he was very good, others he was quite bad. When I decided to show him, he had been a good streak for quite a while. I thought that maybe I had tamed him down. Not so -- he went nuts that day around those kids. In retrospect, none of the kids were ever in any danger -- the snake tried to flee to the rear of the gym. Most of what took place happened with my back turned to the audience. Looking back, it was pretty funny. But in close quarters, like a classroom, it could have been very bad.
>>
>>I never showed that snake again, and wound up selling it to a nearby zoo. After the zoo paid me and I placed the snake in his new cage (a big walk in enclosure), I walked around to the front of the cage to take one last look at the snake. He turned his head and saw me just as a group of children came through the reptile house and charged the glass as hard as he could. He struck at me through the glass, banged his mouth up and just stared at me through the cage. I grabbed the container I brought him in and headed out of the reptile house as quickly as I could! I was afraid the curator might send the snake back with me!
>>
>>That was one ornery snake. I've sort of had the itch to get a baby retic to add to my collection, and if we get to talking about rocks here, I'll probably start wanting another one of them. My wife wouldn't like that very much.
>>
>>And for the record, I would like to see burms, retics, rocks, and anacondas on the same forum. Traffic on the retic and anaconda forum can be slow. It would be nice to have all the big snakes on one location.
>>
>>RP
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

I always figured that retics were the most intelligent of the big snakes. Certainly the ones I had were the most responsive. When I interacted with my retics, I always felt they were studying me more so than I was studying them. I knew them to the point that I could predict what they were going to do before they moved. I avoided strikes from big ones in very close quarters because I knew their habits so well. But at the same time, they were doing the same thing to me. They knew me, and knew how I was going to handle them. They knew the whole presentation routine, and seemed to know when they were on display. I thoroughly enjoyed working with my retics, and I'll probably have another one before too long.

I never gave my African rocks' behaviors as much consideration as I probably should have. Coming from Africa, where all animals have to be somewhat crafty to survive, I can see where their senses could be keener than those of snakes from other continents. Big snakes on other continents don't face the same kinds of dangers that African rocks do. That they show more signs of intelligence than other big snakes is a very interesting -- and astute -- observation. As they become more popular, I'm sure this will be explored more and more.

For the record, I think burms are more intelligent than most people give them credit for. Mine are very responsive and attentive, though they are admittedly a bit dopey. Were they people, I would say they have some book sense, but not much common sense!

RP

Hey, thanks for the compliments. I could go into more detail in my posts, but I want to avoid the situation of, 'the longer the post, the less likely to be read' phenomenon. And I want my words to not be wasted.

If this whole rock/giant forum thing takes off I will go into more detail and post more accounts and data.

>>I always figured that retics were the most intelligent of the big snakes. Certainly the ones I had were the most responsive. When I interacted with my retics, I always felt they were studying me more so than I was studying them. I knew them to the point that I could predict what they were going to do before they moved. I avoided strikes from big ones in very close quarters because I knew their habits so well. But at the same time, they were doing the same thing to me. They knew me, and knew how I was going to handle them. They knew the whole presentation routine, and seemed to know when they were on display. I thoroughly enjoyed working with my retics, and I'll probably have another one before too long.
>>
>>I never gave my African rocks' behaviors as much consideration as I probably should have. Coming from Africa, where all animals have to be somewhat crafty to survive, I can see where their senses could be keener than those of snakes from other continents. Big snakes on other continents don't face the same kinds of dangers that African rocks do. That they show more signs of intelligence than other big snakes is a very interesting -- and astute -- observation. As they become more popular, I'm sure this will be explored more and more.
>>
>>For the record, I think burms are more intelligent than most people give them credit for. Mine are very responsive and attentive, though they are admittedly a bit dopey. Were they people, I would say they have some book sense, but not much common sense!
>>
>>RP
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

I have suggested merging the retic forum with the Burmese forum previously to get more conversation going. The retic forum is almost dead somedays. Adding a third forum on a giant might splinter us even more.
-----
Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles
GiantFeeders

I think we should have... a ball python forum (of course), an other snakes in the genus Python forum (bloods, burms, retics, rocks), a Morelia forum (carpets and GTPs), and an other stuff forum... I think the traffic would be split up the best that way, and we could kind of cross ideas with each other. Like blood owners could probably learn things from burm owners and such. But that's just my utopian vision. The only downside is that the forum names would be too long and would confuse newbies with short attention spans.

The Anaconda Forum is deader than a week long frozen rat.

I think putting all the giant pythons together would be
better. I would definitely like to read up on Rock Python
stories...........tc

I think they seperated out the andaconda forum because no one knows that andacondas are boas and they didn't know where to post...

How someone could own a 20 foot boa and not know it's a boa just cracks me up! But yes, it does happen, doesn't it.

And to everyone else that responded to this quest to include african rock pythons in the forums,. thank you all so much! I never expected this much support for this idea. It's really surprising. And in only a matter of hours too! WOW. Keep the support coming and before long we will have our very own "Giant Constrictor Forum". Which is very very cool as I hate having to click from one forum to another to post or read up on my favorite giant snakes.

>>I think they seperated out the andaconda forum because no one knows that andacondas are boas and they didn't know where to post...
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

It really is a catagory all it's own. An exclusive group of only a few species that can often top 20 feet and 300 pounds. It also only truly appeals to an exclusive group of herpers, so it's perfect in that respect as well. Even if other herpers still like to read about them occasionally. Yes, I change my vote to have all giant constrictors in a single forum.

>>I have suggested merging the retic forum with the Burmese forum previously to get more conversation going. The retic forum is almost dead somedays. Adding a third forum on a giant might splinter us even more.
>>-----
>>Marcia Pimentel
>>Tango River Reptiles
>>GiantFeeders
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

I think this is a wonderful idea. I have always wanted a rock python but I am not experienced enough for one. I think it would be a good learning tool and would bring a lot of enthusiasts closer to that species without purchasing one.

I would love to learn about A. rocks.

>>I have a lot of african rock pythons and I think that they are one of the most amazing python species in many different ways. Yet we don't have a forum for african rock pythons. I personally think that there should be more awareness for the rock pythons and that even people that don't have them would enjoy reading about them if there were a forum devoted solely to them. I would post about them in the "python forum", but any posts there are soon lost amidst the ever-so-many, almost vacuous posts about scrubs and other similar arboreal species. I would REALLY like to have an african rock forum. So can we have a show of hands for anyone else that would like this? Or at the very least maybe nobody would mind if we could post in the burm forum about them, should kingsnake not oblige us with this forum. There's something about them being the third giant that just feels wrong posting about them amongst the skinny arboreals that dominate that forum. [no offense intended to those with the arboreals. I have them and appreciate them too. I just think that rocks deserve their own place]
>>-----
>>It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]
-----
Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net

The impossible is often the untried!!!

do it they should

There are too many forums already, in my opinion. Kingsnake seems to subscribe to the theory that more forums are better, but it's misguided. All it does is fragment traffic and make life difficult for people interested in several different species.

Rock pythons aren't very popular (for very good reasons, IMO, but to each his own). I don't see how they could possibly support their own forum.

If you read the whole thread you will see that the idea of having a seperate thread for rocks has since been abandoned in lieu of a better idea hatched by both Robert Preston and Marcia Pimmel (Tango) to combine all giant constrictors into one forum. So actually,.. if we can get this accomplished it would result in fewer forums, not more.

>>There are too many forums already, in my opinion. Kingsnake seems to subscribe to the theory that more forums are better, but it's misguided. All it does is fragment traffic and make life difficult for people interested in several different species.
>>
>>Rock pythons aren't very popular (for very good reasons, IMO, but to each his own). I don't see how they could possibly support their own forum.
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

Man its like people who just jump in the middle of a conversation with no clue at all. Then I waste my time reading it.

Yeah, and considering you've now jumped on my case TWICE for this, I'm sure your time is oh-so-valuable.

Consider getting a job.

Let's not argue. Besides, if you think about it, we all want the same thing here. A better forum! So we're all on the same side here. Could we all agree that we need a single forum to include all the true giants? Like mcri I despise slow moving and uninteresting forums and would rather have many coupled up so as to stir it up and get things moving. So, peace, huh?

>>Yeah, and considering you've now jumped on my case TWICE for this, I'm sure your time is oh-so-valuable.
>>
>>Consider getting a job.
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

How about a GIANT SNAKES forum? Seriously, I think all of the big four or five deserves recognition under the same umbrella. Brian, like you, I keep these too and although I don't necessarily recommend them for most people, they are certainly a beautiful species. Many of the issues that are raised on this forum could be beneficial for anyone keeping large constrictors (and most of them can be care for in the exact same manner).

Rob Carmichael, Director/Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center

.....kind of "dovetailed" into just that very idea. And I think it is a KICKASS idea (pardon my french) I really think it would be a non-stop constrictor rollercoaster ride and much more rewarding in the sense that non-conda folk could read interesting things about those,. while non-tic folk could stumble on provocative info on tics. It's a win win win.

>>How about a GIANT SNAKES forum? Seriously, I think all of the big four or five deserves recognition under the same umbrella. Brian, like you, I keep these too and although I don't necessarily recommend them for most people, they are certainly a beautiful species. Many of the issues that are raised on this forum could be beneficial for anyone keeping large constrictors (and most of them can be care for in the exact same manner).
>>
>>Rob Carmichael, Director/Curator
>>The Wildlife Discovery Center
-----
It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]