Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am mostly done with "Scribbles" enclosure (Ornate Uro I'm getting next Saturday if you missed my below posings). It is a 3 foot by 2.5 foot home made enclosure. Back and one side wood, front and other side plexiglass. Top Soil substrate with buried 1/2 dog crate for a burrow. He can dig his own if he wants but at least this one will never collapse so he'll always have at least one good one. So far I have 3 large rocks (they rest on the bottom of the cage, he can't dig under them), 3 pieces of driftwood (I'll get more in a few weeks), and some cork bark. I still need to figure out what kind of food dish to get for him. I would like to add some silk plants to make it look not so blah. Although from what I've read in other posts, if he spills some bird seed it might sprout and he might end up growing his own real plants. If they can eat hibiscus, could I maybe bury a potted one in there? Well, here are some photos of it so far. I'll take more after I spruce it up better. I also still have to add the heat lamps and UV lights which I'll do this week.

The whole enclosure is 5' by 3' and used to be for my Savannah Monitor who I no longer have. I've divided it in half to make the Uro enclosure (left) and Greek Tortoise enclosure (right)

Top view of the Uro's enclosure

Closer view of the dog crate 'burrow' which is totally buried so that he feels he is going Down into it. Also makes the purple crate less visable which makes the enclosure look more natural. Doubtful many purple dog crates out there in the wild.

This is the other side, the Tortoise is full grown. Her name is Sunshine.

She has the other 1/2 of the dog crate...

If anyone has any decorating tips on how to make the Uro side look nicer, please let me know! I can't stack the wood any higher since the top of the enclosure is open and I don't want him to jump out.

For people not bedding in birdseed, do you mix your birdseed feed in with the greens, or do you have one bowl of just seed and another with the greens?

-----
Lyns Lair
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
8.0 Rats (Inky, Oy, Ben, Pinky, Templeton, Cotton, Bilbo, Carlo)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow/Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 California King Snake (Boo)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Anery Corn Snake (Suezo)
1.1 Normal Corn Snakes het Pewter and Snow (Romeo & Juliet)
2.1.1 Eastern Milk Snakes (Uno, Dos, Tres, Snoopy)
1.0 Ball Python (Slytherin)
2.0 Smooth Green Snakes (Fred & George)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Bubbles)
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
0.2 Mississippi Mud Turtles (Squirt & Shyanne)
1.0 Green Iguana (Norbert)
1.1 Bearded Dragons (Moose & Tipsy)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Dragon (Tiramisu)
1.0 Ornate Uromastyx coming mid April
0.0.1 American Toad (Bump)
0.0.1 Fowlers Toad (no name yet)
0.0.3 Mystery Toads (no names yet)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.4 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Mystique, Freckles, Zipper, Twister)

I use a similar idea to create a fake burrow for my uro (since she's in a somewhat small tank until the 4'x2' ones are completed). If you're familiar with a retes stack, I just used one section of that, and buried it so that only the entrance was visible. It creates a nice humid hidespot, though not quite a burrow.

An even better idea, which is one I'm probably going to use in the new cage, is to just take a piece of plywood or panelling of the desired size, and set it on top of the soil, and then dig a little bit under it to give the uro the idea. So then they have the liberty of sort of digging a burrow, but with a roof that won't collapse. It's not nearly as good as a really burrow, but it will suit the purpose. I've heard of people with monitors doing similar things with success when they either can't get enough dirt in their enclosures, or the dirt won't hold well enough. If you don't like the idea of seeing a flat piece of wood in your enclosure, you can simply cover it up with dirt like you did with the dog crate.

Also, about retes stacks. They make an excellent basking spot that allows your uro to decide exactly what basking temp he wants. I have a pretty crappy one setup right now, but I'm going to make a new stack for the new cage that should be a lot better and more comfortable for my uro. I think I'll also make one for my beardie.

Nice to see another person out there trying dirt. It really is a great substrate choice...I'd argue it's the best for a lizard like a uromastyx.

By the way, what are your feelings on the NY ban? I've talked to a couple of people around rochester about it, and the general consensus is that people are still selling/buying large monitors and constrictors like nothing happened.

Thanks. Is the stack the same one that was popular on the monitor boards? I remembered somthing "stacky" but couldn't remember how to make one. My first thought was to do the board like you mentioned but then i ended up doing the crate instead.

As for the law, it went into effect January 1st but so many people were fighting it still that they took it back down for revisions. So if people are selling stuff now they are still safe. It will go back to a law soon.

General concensus is it sucks. Mainly because it opened the door. Now down the road they can decide to add a species here or a species there or change the annual fee for keeping what you have, and those revisions will likely pass fairly easily.

At least they did fix it from the original wording which outlawed all Boide regardless of species or size. So Rubber Boas, Sand boas, Ball Pythons, etc, would have fallen under the same laws as Retics and Anacondas.

Then they were going to change it to outlaw any snake who could reach a full grown length of over 7 feet. That didn't work either cuz there are some harmless Rat Snakes out there that can get that long but are not dangerous.

Finally they went with the actual species breakdown which is better.

I don't think that Black/White throat Monitors belong on that list. They might be a bit bigger than Savannahs but are generally docile. Better pets than Green Iguanas in my book.

My personal opinion is to have special classes for handling of large reptiles. If you pass the course and can prove your ability to properly house/care for the animals then you should pay a one time fee to get a liscence. Pet stores should be allowed to carry the animals but must only sell to liscenced individuals. Then if someone lodges a complaint, the DEC could come investigate and revoke licenses as necessary if they find someone is not caring properly for the animals.

I personally do not have any animals effected by the law, but I still am against it. To just flat ban species when there are responsible people out there capable of properly caring for them is just not right. Their reasoning for the laws are stupid. More people are hurt/killed by dogs or horses every year than by pet reptiles. More people get Salmonella from eating food then from handling reptiles. They should probably ban automobiles, people are killed every year in car accidents. Ok, well, that's my 2 cents on that...

-----
Lyns Lair
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
8.0 Rats (Inky, Oy, Ben, Pinky, Templeton, Cotton, Bilbo, Carlo)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow/Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 California King Snake (Boo)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Anery Corn Snake (Suezo)
1.1 Normal Corn Snakes het Pewter and Snow (Romeo & Juliet)
2.1.1 Eastern Milk Snakes (Uno, Dos, Tres, Snoopy)
1.0 Ball Python (Slytherin)
2.0 Smooth Green Snakes (Fred & George)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Bubbles)
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
0.2 Mississippi Mud Turtles (Squirt & Shyanne)
1.0 Green Iguana (Norbert)
1.1 Bearded Dragons (Moose & Tipsy)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Dragon (Tiramisu)
1.0 Ornate Uromastyx coming mid April
0.0.1 American Toad (Bump)
0.0.1 Fowlers Toad (no name yet)
0.0.3 Mystery Toads (no names yet)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.4 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Mystique, Freckles, Zipper, Twister)

hi Lyn, you can read about the Retes Stacks at the link below.

as it says in the FAQ, the size, configuration, and details are up to you, just apply the idea to your cage setup, perhaps making the gaps between the stacks JUST BIG ENOUGH for your Uro (or snake, gecko, monitor, whatever) to squeeze into. all reptiles will appreciate and choose a tight fitting crevice hide spot over a wide open "cave" hide spot.

placed directly under a basking light, we get an 8-10F degree drop down through each level, and having four or five levels in your stack (or more) greatly increases the amount of usable floorspace in the cage for the animal, an added benefit

we use the stacks with many different species, from snakes to lizards, all with great success.
how to make a Retes Stack

-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

If I end up going to school after next year at a college that will allow me to spend time at home everyday with the reptiles, I want to expand my collection a little bit, and maybe try for a snake. I was thinking a ball python would be a perfect choice because of their size and temperament, but I was wondering something.

How much of the stuff I've been learning with the lizards can be applied to snakes? Like, would soil be a good idea, or would it be better to stick with something else, and would he/she be benefitted by an area of heightened humidity like a burrow of some sort? I commonly see people talking about trying to raise the overall cage humidity up high for their BP, but to me it seems like it would make more sense to offer gradients like I try to do with my lizards, to replicate the BP natural environment, and give him/her the freedom to decide.

Just a couple of things I've been pondering. Lizards are my favorite, but I've always had a soft spot for snakes too.

the whole lizard "theory" is about choices, and that can be applied to any reptile. we have used very similar setups for snakes, with soil substrate, retes stacks, great temp gradients, and we have seen terrific results. DEFINITELY try it
-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Yeah, I remember those from my monitor days. I was on the monitor forum back when that one guy had a Sav named Rusty and everyone kept picking on him because he gave him blankets to sleep on. And there was some other guy who used to make "snausages" for his monitors. Then there was a guy named Alan, who went by a lot of other names too, and would just post stupid stuff back and forth to himself and start flame wars. Yup, those were the days.

I've alreay discovered a problem with my dirt. It must not be the right mix so I'll have to play with it some more. It's drying out way too fast now that I put the heating elements in place. He can still dig around, but there is not a chance in heck of him making a burrow. I have laid the cork bark pieces right on the dirt now and sort of dug little tunnels under them, so he can dig around under the cork bark which is lightweight and can't hurt him if it falls on him. I'm thinking it must be hard to keep the dirt pliable in the hot end of the enclosure if it's 100 or over. I'll try adding some peat and sand and see what happens. I totally rearranged everything today. I put all the rocks together and added more of them. I have a ceramic heater hanging over a large smooth rock in hopes it will absorb and hold the heat for a nice basking area. Thanks to everyone for all the help and advise!
-----
Lyns Lair
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
8.0 Rats (Inky, Oy, Ben, Pinky, Templeton, Cotton, Bilbo, Carlo)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow/Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 California King Snake (Boo)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Anery Corn Snake (Suezo)
1.1 Normal Corn Snakes het Pewter and Snow (Romeo & Juliet)
2.1.1 Eastern Milk Snakes (Uno, Dos, Tres, Snoopy)
1.0 Ball Python (Slytherin)
2.0 Smooth Green Snakes (Fred & George)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Bubbles)
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
0.2 Mississippi Mud Turtles (Squirt & Shyanne)
1.0 Green Iguana (Norbert)
1.1 Bearded Dragons (Moose & Tipsy)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Dragon (Tiramisu)
1.0 Ornate Uromastyx coming mid April
0.0.1 American Toad (Bump)
0.0.1 Fowlers Toad (no name yet)
0.0.3 Mystery Toads (no names yet)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.4 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Mystique, Freckles, Zipper, Twister)

drying out is about too much ventilation. especially from screen tops. if you limit venting as much as you reasonably can, there will still be enough for fresh air and circulation, and you won't be evaporating everything right out of there.

your basking spots should be 120-130F at least, and properly setup, your cage should retain the moisture just fine.

if you want to add to your soil, add sand, also vermiculite, but not peat.
-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Oh, I have an open top so that explains it. I got the basking spot all set at just over 120, I hung a 150 watt ceramic heater over some big smooth rocks so the rocks would help absorb the heat. Then have a 100 watt heat lamp next to that to get the 100 degree hot side. The cool side is currently under the recommended 80 degrees though. I still have to work on that. I'll think about trying to cover the top. I like open topped enclosures when possible. With 50 animals it's much easier to feed/clean if I'm not fussing with lids. But if I have to then I have to. Thanks for all of your help!
-----
Lyns Lair
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
8.0 Rats (Inky, Oy, Ben, Pinky, Templeton, Cotton, Bilbo, Carlo)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow/Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 California King Snake (Boo)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Anery Corn Snake (Suezo)
1.1 Normal Corn Snakes het Pewter and Snow (Romeo & Juliet)
2.1.1 Eastern Milk Snakes (Uno, Dos, Tres, Snoopy)
1.0 Ball Python (Slytherin)
2.0 Smooth Green Snakes (Fred & George)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Bubbles)
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
0.2 Mississippi Mud Turtles (Squirt & Shyanne)
1.0 Green Iguana (Norbert)
1.1 Bearded Dragons (Moose & Tipsy)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Dragon (Tiramisu)
1.0 Ornate Uromastyx coming mid April
0.0.1 American Toad (Bump)
0.0.1 Fowlers Toad (no name yet)
0.0.3 Mystery Toads (no names yet)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.4 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Mystique, Freckles, Zipper, Twister)

>>I still have to work on that. I'll think about trying to cover
>>the top. I like open topped enclosures when possible. With 50
>>animals it's much easier to feed/clean if I'm not fussing with
>>lids. But if I have to then I have to.

I've tossed all my screen tops and made plywood inserts instead. I cut out holes to run wires and install lamps, and the rest of the space is carved away to make a hinged hatch for quick and easy access using normal cabinet hinges. They're quick and easy to do, all you need is a moto-tool/router/roto-zip/patience with a saw to put it together. I get the guy at Home Depot to do the major external cuts so I don't have to mess with the tablesaw. I find the hinged lids MUCH more accessible than the sliding tops. If nothing else, it should lower your heating and maintanence costs.
-----
2.4.0 uromastyx geyri (Saharan/Nigerian)
0.0.4 uromastyx hardwickii (Indian)
2.3.0 uromastyx macfadyeni (Somalian)
1.3.0 uromastyx ocellata (Sudanese)
"Yes, it's a problem. No, I don't want to talk about it."

Hi, I recently bought a pretty big bag of organic potting soil. Could I use that as a substrate instead of birdseed? My uro is about 6 months old, he's always licking and exploring, do you think it would be safe? I feel bad watching him dig into the corners, or when he digs into his little hiding spot I made, I feel like he wants to go farther and really get something out of his digging. Is it safe to use the soil?

Most potting soil, organic or not, has fertilizer in it for plants, so it is definately not recommended for lizards. Try just plain ol' dirt. Lowes and Home Depot have garden soil that has no fertilizer in it.

Leslie