Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, I'm new to snakes, I have a question.

I have 2 cornsnakes in a tank. I fed them on Sunday. When I got home from school today and came into the room where they are kept, it smelled absolutely rank. I check on all my animals to see if any had died, but they were all fine. So I cleaned everyone's tank/cage and found a partially digested mouse decaying in the corner of my cornsnake tank.

Neither of them has a lump, so I can't say which one lost their lunch. The only difference is that my beautiful sunglow motely is practically pink, she's so opaque. I assume she's the one that woofed her cookies. Could it just be because she's about to shed, or could she be sick and she's pale from illness?

Should I be worried?

Corns don't change colour when they get ill, so she's just going to shed.

Unfortunately, you're still no nearer knowing who blew. Some Corns are fine with eating before/during/after a shed, so you can't be sure that she's the one who did it.

My advice would be to separate them and check for other health problems.

How old are they and how long have they been together? If they're youngish and/or have only just been introduced, it might be worth separating them for good. Some get stressed by sharing and can regurge as a result.

They are approx. 8 months old, but they were hibernated by the breeder so they are still small. I don't think they were kept together by the breeder, but we've been keeping them together for about a month with no problems before this.

The only other variable could be their last 2 feedings. On sunday we gave the sunglow who is slightly larger 1 fuzzy and 1 pinkie. She also got that amount 5 days earlier and handled it fine. On the other hand the other lady in there who is slightly smaller got 2 pinkies this week, and only 1 pinkie 5 days earlier. So she got twice as much food. Could it be that it was too much for her?

I think i'll go ahead and seperate them just in case, and then by next feeding, if it happens again, at least I'll know which lost her lunch.

I choose the word ignorant, because ignorance is basically a lack of knowledge. Once you obtain that knowledge, you are no longer ignorant on the subject.

There are MANY reasons on why you should seperate your snakes permenantly. However, I know you'll probably just disreguard this message if I start out on that so i'll start on a more pertinant matter.

When a snake regurgitates, it completely screws up the digestive tract. You need to wait at least 10 days before attempting to feed it again. In most cases, it won't take the food, but it could still take food causing yet another regurg. This will just give you a much larger problem. Since you housed them together and don't know which one is regurg'ing, wait to feed both for 10 days.

This brings you to your next problem. You have no idea which snake regurg'd. This is one of the first of a long line of potential problems you can get when keeping two snakes together. What if you find extremly runny stools? You won't know which snake that came from, WHAM! just like that double the vet bills.

Also, when you keep two snakes together, if one gets sick I can just about guarantee you the other WILL get sick. Again, WHAM! double vet bills.

What would a secondary setup cost? Maybe $50-$80 for a 29 gallon tank. $20-$30 for a 10 for the baby. Take my advice, invest the money and give your snakes seperate homes. They are not social animals. They get together to mate, and then don't see each other for another year.

Also, even thou corn snakes are not known to be cannibalistic as much as say kings or milks,for one corn to eat the other is not rare at all, I see it on forums and in chat quite often. And what usually happens is they both die in the process(specially when there both around the same size). I have some pictures of this happening, if you care to see them.

Do the responsible thing, if you're going to keep multiple snakes put them in seperate tanks, please.

thanks for the info. But I dont see why you had to assume I wouldn't follow your advice.

psht. complex, much?

>>thanks for the info. But I dont see why you had to assume I wouldn't follow your advice.
>>
>>psht. complex, much?

The reason he assumed you wouldn't follow the advise was simple.
We get people on here day after day after day who ask about keeping corns together but when we recommend against it they usually make comments that make it obvious they are going to keep them together no matter what we say and were just hoping they could get at least one response supporting the idea of cohabitation.
Definitely follow the advise of waiting 10 days before feeding both snakes. When you do feed them again give them each just one small item and keep them separate for at least four or five days to make sure they both digest properly.
I also agree that it would be better to keep them separate forever.

I posted this just a few posts down but thought I would post it one more time.

>>>>COHABITATION
>>
>>>>I feel it is best to keep snakes separate.
>>>>I know a lot of people keep multiple snakes together without problems and it can obviously be done without dangers to the snakes. I just feel that for new people in the hobby the possible drawbacks need to be expressed.
>>>>When a person gets the experience and knowledge of their individual snakes and wants to try cohabitation that is up to them. They just need to be carefull and able to read the subtle signs of their snakes.
>>>>There can be definite drawbacks.
>>>>If one snake becomes sick there is a very good likelihood the other/others will get sick as well.
>>>>It may also take a while (usually too long) to determine which one is the sick one.
>>>>If one regurgitates its food you won't know which one unless you happen to get lucky and see it.
>>>>If one has a problem stool you won't know which one. Once again one may have a problem but by the time you figure out which one the other/others could end up with the same problem.
>>>>Although this is only a slight possibility, it is still a possibility and has been know to happen, one snake could eat the other. The smell of a prey item could trigger one snake to eat the other.
>>>>Like I said, this doesn't happen often but it has happened and is a possibility.
>>>>Another possibility is unwanted pregnancy. A female might get pregnant and you may not have the knowledge, desire or ability to incubate the eggs properly and raise the babies. With babies comes the responsibility of caring for them until you can find them a home.
>>>>A lot of people rationalize by saying "I will just put two males or two females together". That can work but mistakes can easily be made, especially with hatchlings. You could easily end up with a male and female.
>>>>There is also a chance of a female breeding too young or too small and becoming eggbound. Although not common it is a possibility and can happen.
>>>>With multiple snakes in an enclosure you stand the chance of loosing all of them if you happen to leave a top secured improperly or there happens to be a place they can escape through. Instead of losing one you could loose two or more depending on how many you decide to place together.
>>>>One or both of the snakes could be stressed by the presence of the other. Stress can cause a drop in appetite and lead to other health problems as well.
>>>>People will put multiple snakes in an enclosure and ask why one isn't eating.
>>>>When they are told it is probably due to stress caused by the other snake, the response is almost always "they like each other, they are always under the same hide together". Well this probably just means that hide or area of the tank has the optimum conditions they are looking for.
>>>>Snakes do not LIKE each other or ENJOY each other’s company.
>>>>There is no capacity for snakes to "like" or "enjoy".
>>>>
>>>>I have kept multiple snakes together without problems but have made a choice to keep them separate. There is no clear argument on why you SHOULD keep them together but there are clear arguments as to why you SHOULD NOT.
>>>>So, in my opinion, although people do it successfully I just don't think it is worth the risk.
>>>>If youdo decide to keep your snakes together watch closely for any signs of appetite loss, regurgitation or any kind of personality change. These could all be signs of stress.
>>>>You would also want to feed them in separate containers and give them an hour or so to allow the smell of they prey item to dissipate, before putting them back together.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

...come tell this person why it's fine to have two snakes in one vivarium? I mean, we see you all posting about how it's OK BEFORE there are any problems to be found, but I have never seen one of you do so AFTER one among multiple corns in a single tank is puking and there is no way to tell which one!

What is that saying again? Oh yeah..."Consistency, thou art a jewel!" Please, someone be consistent and come tell us why keeping these corns together is such a good idea for this person, now that one of them is puking for an unknown reason!

As to the original question...

You're likely going to find that both of your snakes are fine, and the sunglow regurged because it was ready to shed. Some do that, especially young ones. However, there is no way to KNOW for sure that the sunglow is the one that regurged, or that this is the actual reason...hence the problems with cohabitating them.

So, I would strongly suggest you separate them, wait ten days to feed them again (or longer in the case of the sunglow, if it still hasn't shed), then watch them individually to see how they do. If one or the other of them shows signs of being sick after that, you'll need to get both of them to a vet.

I hope everything works out well for you and your snakes. Good luck!
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

Darrin,
I remain consistant in always reccomending against cohabitation. Maybe there are some cases in which it is okay, but these are very few and farbetween - and only for experienced keepers/breeders. The majority of the people asking this question are not experienced, they are still novices, for an experienced keeper should probably know what to do.

I don't cohabitate any snakes, and I always reccomend against it. Keeps problems like this from arising.
-Chris
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0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat
1.0 Black Rat
0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty
1.0 Green Tree Python
0.1 Texas Bairds Rat

The educated are the few. The uneducated are the masses.

Chris,

My post was for those who do say that it is OK to house corns together. I find it amazing that there are those who will advise new people to house their corns together when they are asking from an early perspective...merely starting out, but once one of these inexperienced keepers has a problem, which has obviously been made worse by the fact of cohabitation, those who so strongly advocated for the practice before are then strangely silent on the subject. It's somewhat hypocritical, in my view.

I think there are situations in which it is entirely acceptable to house corns together. I also believe that there really are not very many hard and set rules in corn husbandry (if any at all). However, for a beginning corn enthusiast, the difficulties that arise from time to time are hard enough to recognize and handle, and cohabitation of one's snakes only makes that truism even more concrete.

I just get really frustrated with those irresponsible few who come on here and say stuff like "Oh I've housed mine together for years and never had a problem...keep them together, they LIKE it!" It's just asking for problems in someone else's collection, and that level of disregard for others is something I find personally unacceptable.
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

Hi Darrin.

My name is Kel and I keep Corns together in pairs and trios and I have done for years(gosh it's like being in AA isn't it?).

I hope you found my response to the original question, to be a responsible one.

Hi Darrin.

My name is Kel and I keep Corns together in pairs and trios and I have done for years(gosh it's like being in AA isn't it?).

I hope you found my response to the original question, to be a responsible one.

Like i said, there are instances in which doing so are fine, especially for those who are more experienced. I've done it myself several times of the years.

What I find irresponsible is when some just tells a new person "Sure it's safe...I've done it for years" without listing all of the possible down sides. Your post specifically encouraged that newer person to separate the corns because of possible stress or other health issues, and you did not try to justify your housing practices by assuming that everyone was as experienced and capable as you are, nor did you suggest that because you have had no problems in keeping multiple corns together others could expect the same in their collections.

No, Kel...I have no problems with you or what you wrote. However, I don't at all mean to come off as some "Keeper of the Cornsnake Ethics Board" or whatever. If my frustration with some on this board made me sound as though I thought I were...well, I'm sorry for that.
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

When you take on these animals, or any other, you have an obligation to provide them the best care/habitat you can. In most cases it is irresponsible to house these animals together. (Yes, I realize it is necessary during breeding and with new young.)
And yes, it is particularly irresponsible to lead new owners to believe that "it's alright" to house thes animals together. Just because they can't see the stress doesn't mean it's not there. When they feel it's time to feed that other snake just appears to be a possible meal. Talk about stressful!!