Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We've got a baby on the way, and reading the salmonella story on the KS news border got me thinking. I'll preface my question with saying that I am a university trained biologist with a masters degree. I have studied microbiology as well as all the other "Typical" biology/zoology/chemistry that goes with a college biology program. I have always been very aware of salmonella as a part of many reptiles' natural gut flora, and I have always been extremely careful with thorough handwashing and all the regular precautions.

Reading the article about how easy it is for babies to pick up salmonella has me pondering how to keep our baby safe. In the article, it describe one baby who contracted salmonella from her father. He had a boa draped around his neck at some point during the day, came home and held his child who picked up the bug just from this limited type of contact.

We will be moving into a new house prior to the birth of our son in July. We will have a seperate snake room, with its own sink. I plan to keep a pair of slippers in the snake room, to keep from transfering any possible germs to the carpets where the baby may play.

What other precautions have some of you taken? What other precautions have you thought about taking? Any of you have horror stories? Any of you had several children that have never gotten sick? If so, can you describe your sanitation regime?

Any other thoughts or comments?

Obviously, I intend to continue working with my animals....As a first time father though, everything scares me. Babies I've seen in the past simply cant keep their hands out of their mouths, so how can we keep them from picking up not only salmonella but any other pathogen around the house.

Thanks for any and all input!

Even a petting zoo is suspect, or eating in a restaurant. You can't get away from the "bug" factor.

Mike

Yes, but your friendly dog can also have salmonella as well as a gambit of other diseases. Where do you think your snake gets salmonella? I just detest how people pick on reptiles for having salmonella as it is one of only a handful of diseases that dogs or cats can give to humans.

Sorry if I seem a bit heated. My mother, who is now a retired kindergarten teacher, was forced to take her snake and bearded dragon home because of the irrational fear of salmonella. In the 10 or so years she had reptiles in her classroom, do you know how many cases of salmonella she dealt with? ZERO.

Matt

I absolutely agree and understand that the cases of human salmonellosis from reptiles are blown way out of proportion. And I also beleive that many of the cases that are attributed to reptiles actullay come from someones improper handling of food.

Having said that though, I know there is enough of a threat to be cautious and I do know this is a discussion we should be having as a community. Cases attributed to reptiles only fuel the fire in the many states and communities that are trying to limit exotic animal ownership.

I'm still looking for practical ideas to limit any possible contamination of the baby's part of the house.

As a mother of triplets, that were already considered high risk for any type of infection due to being premature, we just have always used regular proper hygene. Washing hands, the snakes are kept in their area. I think a lot of salmonella cases unless they are testing the type of salmonella in the human against the animal they are blaming I think most are not from the reptiles. Also I'm not one of the neurotic, lysoling, disinfecting my shopping cart type of parent either. I think playing in dirt and being exposed to bacteria is good it builds their immune system. My friends kids are in the hospital at least twice a year, she literally lysols her shopping cart before putting her kids in. Needless to say they catch everything they do come in contact with since they have never been exposed to anything. Just my opinion though. Let your common sense prevail.
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Nita Hamilton
4.13 Normal BP's, 1.0 Het Orange Ghost BP, 1.0 Het Pied 1.0 50% poss Het Orange Ghost BP's

I'd love to say that we have perfect hygene when it comes to the snakes but to be honest we don't, my kids are in and out of the snake racks all the time and I'm sure they don't always wash their hands afterwards. All three of my kids have been raised with our snakes, and we do have the typical rules about washing up after we are done handling the snakes, etc, but they're kids. I'll walk into the living room and see my son sitting on the floor with a snake around his neck eating cereal how are good hand washing skill really going to help? We have had no problems with samonella in the 25 years I've had the snakes or the 18 that I've had my kids (and everyone elses kids) around them. That doesn't mean that I'm not aware or concerned or when there is a wierd illness goes around the house I don't consider it may something related to the snake or the recent cat scratch or something from a dog flea. You just do the best you can.
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Tosha

8.13.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and currently un-named)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
7.9.5 Fish (1,2,3,4...)
0.0.1 Frog rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.2 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

I have an 18 month old daughter, so I understand your concern. I always make sure I wash my hands carefully after handling any of my animals...just in case.

However, as a child I would pick up any snake I could find as well as old skins. (I remember Robbie busted on me for catching a Highland Water Mocassin and his grandfather came over with a shotgun.) I wouldn't care if the animal was venomous or not. If it was slithering by, I caught it...always careful of course. And I seriously doubt I ever washed my hands afterward. Salmonella was never a problem.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: Be careful...but not obsessive.

Good Things,
Chris
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“Next time don't buy $10K worth of snakes out of the back of a van!” -- Toshamc

I've been breeding snakes for 14 years now and have kept them many years longer then that. I have kids that are 11 and 13 years old, they've been around reptiles all of their lives and neither one has had salmonella THAT I KNOW OF. I say it that way in caps because many people come down with light cases and get over it without even realizing they've had it. I also mainly keep snakes which I think are easier to keep clean and keep healthy. Even though salmonella is common in many reptiles, it's less likely for them to be shedding it if they are healthy and in good shape. I've never taken any extra measures other then regular cage cleaning, disinfecting with nolvasan and always washing my hands after working with the reptiles. Neither myself nor anyone in my family has become sick due to my reptiles.

On the other hand, I have a good friend who has been keeping reptiles as long as I have. Her grand daughter and a friend of hers both contracted salmonella from her collection (neither she nor her husband were ever sick themselves.) However she also keeps a lot of large monitor lizards, as well as various other lizards, snakes, and tortoises. Large monitors can be very messy and are more difficult to clean up after. In addition, she is also the chair of our herp societies adoption committee and ends up bringing many sick and/or stressed out animals into her home that have been given up for adoption. I think with her situation, with large messy lizards, a large and diverse collection and the chance of cross-contamination from stressed out animals that are less then healthy. Her situation is much, much harder to keep clean and sanitary then my own even though I have more individual animals.

When dealing with Salmonella, cleanliness is everything.

Mark

>>We've got a baby on the way, and reading the salmonella story on the KS news border got me thinking. I'll preface my question with saying that I am a university trained biologist with a masters degree. I have studied microbiology as well as all the other "Typical" biology/zoology/chemistry that goes with a college biology program. I have always been very aware of salmonella as a part of many reptiles' natural gut flora, and I have always been extremely careful with thorough handwashing and all the regular precautions.
>>
>> Reading the article about how easy it is for babies to pick up salmonella has me pondering how to keep our baby safe. In the article, it describe one baby who contracted salmonella from her father. He had a boa draped around his neck at some point during the day, came home and held his child who picked up the bug just from this limited type of contact.
>>
>>We will be moving into a new house prior to the birth of our son in July. We will have a seperate snake room, with its own sink. I plan to keep a pair of slippers in the snake room, to keep from transfering any possible germs to the carpets where the baby may play.
>>
>>What other precautions have some of you taken? What other precautions have you thought about taking? Any of you have horror stories? Any of you had several children that have never gotten sick? If so, can you describe your sanitation regime?
>>
>>Any other thoughts or comments?
>>
>>Obviously, I intend to continue working with my animals....As a first time father though, everything scares me. Babies I've seen in the past simply cant keep their hands out of their mouths, so how can we keep them from picking up not only salmonella but any other pathogen around the house.
>>
>>Thanks for any and all input!

1.) Kids will be kids. You can teach them all the handwashing rules in the world, and if they have grown up around these lovely creatures, they will still 'forget' to wash hands, or do something (such as the aforementioned wearing snake while eating!) that makes washing the hands a moot point. LOL

2.) Yes, you can take precautions, such as handwashing, I think the slippers thing is a little more than is really neccessary, and if you go too far to the 'clean' side then yes - children will have a very lousy immune system and catch everything they come into contact with for the simple reason they have not had any prior exposure to it in order to build up that immunity in the first place.

3.) I really do think the cases of salmonella being contracted from reptiles is blown WAY out of proportion simply BECAUSE it's the whole 'reptiles = evil' bullpucky again. Yes, if you don't wash your hands, if you don't keep your reptiles' enclosures and areas and rooms sanitary and clean, you WILL increase the risk. But frankly, I really think the chances of contracting it from an in-house reptile is next to nil if basic cleanliness is applied.

4.) I have a 6 year old. She has grown up around our snakes (a 9.5ft african rock, a 4ft ball python, a 3 ft red corn, a small albino bullsnake and a hatchling burmese) and she has never gotten sick, she has handled the smaller ones (the ball, the hatchling burm - the bull is too darty-ish, and the rock is simply too big, she is not allowed in the room, period, when it is being handled.)

She's never gotten sick. Not from the reptiles. Colds, yes. Flu once, yes. Chickenpox, yes. Salmonella, never. She loves these critters, and it sure is amusing to see a 6 year old perfectly calm around large predatory reptiles, who then absolutely freaks out at the sight of a bug - ANY bug.

5.) If the reptiles are properly cared for (kept clean, cages and room kept clean, etc) then quite frankly, you're child will run more of a risk from picking up salmonella from a fast food burger joint than they will from the family's snake. I work in fast food - believe me, I know this one.

I'll halt here before I get off on a rant myself. LOL But basically, if you just keep common sense, basic general hygiene, you don't have anything to worry about from your reptiles. Don't go overboard on the cleanliness thing - children DO NEED to get sick here and there in their lives, that is how the body builds it's immune system! - just keep your basic hygiene, and in my opinion, you should be fine.

~ Seliah