Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here's the first of the 1.2 speckleds I found on my 1 hour herp trip (after that the car took a serious nosedive and I had to go home 6 days early!).
This one is a 37" female with some nice yellow speckling all over. Found this one at the bottom of a large crayfish hole which was under a tin sheet. Almost didn't see her. I was curious to see how deep the hole was since it looked so big and perfectly round; Then I spotted her.

Zee

Here's another, much smaller female (about 26" long), but with lots of speckling and a nice orange belly. One of the nicest females I've found from that area. (Found only a few feet from the first female).

Zee

Here's the young male I found under the same tin as the 37" female. He's rather small though at 31" and proabably barely mature? He IS the nicest of the trio and has lots of yellow and orange on his belly.

Zee

You collected all 3 of these from the same spot??
Brian
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

YUP - all three within five feet of each other at the same spot. It was the only spot I got to check, because right after getting into the car to go to some other "hot spots" I noticed that my headgasket blew and my car wouldn't start until some of that water got out of the engine. I had to pour a bunch of water into it and get back to town and from there straight home. If I could of stayed a few days, I probably would have found a lot more. I know the area very well, since I used to live there many years ago. . . I wanted to find some of those hi-yellow ones and take only the best looking ones and release the rest.

Zee

I was just thinking of the ramifications of collecting 2 females and a male withing 5 feet of each other. Overcollecting like that will turn those "hot spots" into cold spots. I do alot of field herping, and rarely collect. If I do, I do not collect more than 1 animal from the same area. Dont take this the wrong way, as Im not flaming you or trying to start any kind of bad blood, just trying to make you think about overcollecting of animals in one spot.

I have nothing against collecting for ones own collection and breeding projects, just would like herpers to stop and think about collecting techniques. I know all about getting caught up in the moment and snagging a beautiful snake from under some cover, but if everyone went out and pulled every snake they found, then where would the wild populations be? Just some food for thought is all.

And by the way, nice looking holbrooki!!

>>YUP - all three within five feet of each other at the same spot. It was the only spot I got to check, because right after getting into the car to go to some other "hot spots" I noticed that my headgasket blew and my car wouldn't start until some of that water got out of the engine. I had to pour a bunch of water into it and get back to town and from there straight home. If I could of stayed a few days, I probably would have found a lot more. I know the area very well, since I used to live there many years ago. . . I wanted to find some of those hi-yellow ones and take only the best looking ones and release the rest.
>>
>>Zee
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

I understand your point. No hard feelings.
Last time I visited that area was 12 years ago. So I don't go there often at all. 12 years ago I found two kings there. It may well be another 10 years or so before I hit that spot again. This spot has a HUGE vast area around it that is void of houses for many miles. . . A lot of kingsnakes pass through this area because this habitat supports so many.
Remember, this is a UNIQUE situation, where I was not afforded the opportunity to do what you and I normally would do (not take too many in one spot). Don't forget that two of these snakes were very small, the biggest of the three is only 37".
In addition to that, I have (when living there returned all baby kings that I bred from those areas for six years and sold NONE. I probably returned too many in some spots).

Zee

Zee
Glad you took that as constructive criticism, and not a flame! I just assumed this was a hot spot you frequented and, as I have seen happen, overcollected. That is great that you replace offspring into these areas, thats something that not too many people do. Im glad to hear someone that loves herping is actually helping keep the population of locale snakes alive and well. A breath of fresh air.
Brian

>>I understand your point. No hard feelings.
>>Last time I visited that area was 12 years ago. So I don't go there often at all. 12 years ago I found two kings there. It may well be another 10 years or so before I hit that spot again. This spot has a HUGE vast area around it that is void of houses for many miles. . . A lot of kingsnakes pass through this area because this habitat supports so many.
>>Remember, this is a UNIQUE situation, where I was not afforded the opportunity to do what you and I normally would do (not take too many in one spot). Don't forget that two of these snakes were very small, the biggest of the three is only 37".
>>In addition to that, I have (when living there returned all baby kings that I bred from those areas for six years and sold NONE. I probably returned too many in some spots).
>>
>>Zee
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

it's worth considering whether offspring should be returned to the wild. there was a brief discussion on the subject five threads higher on this forum ("feeding scarlet kings". I understand the impulse, and have done it in the past thinking i was doing a good thing, but the more i learn, the less i'm sure...
terry

... in some areas releasing ANY wildlife is illegal. Even the ones that are native and "supposed to be there".
:Mark

I agree 99.9% I myself am a collector though,but I take the cream of the krop,when I herp for my breeding projects,and relocate the rest being that 9 times out of 10 I herp spots that are soon to be dozed or become neighborhoods etc. There is no way herpers could herp enough to put a dent in the population of the snakes out there. That's juss my .02 though. Herp on. & keep them screamin photos coming.... PE@CE....

"There is no way herpers could herp enough to put a dent in the population of the snakes out there."

Thats not entirely true, especially depending on the type of snake your collecting. For example here in KY, the southern black racer seems to be the most prevalent large snake found out in the field, with the black rat and black king in close 2nd. But the corn snake and pine snakes only have a very limited range here, and overcollecting of these animals could very well place a heavy toll on the already small populations of these animals.

On the same sheet of music, if I were to go out in one area, and collect every racer or black rat I came across, it would take a few seasons for them to regain the population prior to collecting. Overcollection does impact local populations, weather you see it or not. That is one reason I keep all of my tin sites rather secret! I enjoy what I find out in the field, and rarely do I collect. But I do have some tin sites in areas where a couple of target species are prevalent, and do plan on collecting one of these snakes. But I will be picky about it, and if it takes me a couple of seasons, so be it.
Brian

-----

RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

ZEE. I have herped Lake Charles many times. It never fails I always turn up some smokin holbrooki... That male is a real score very nice. Sorry to hear your trip got all messed up. It's still early in the yr though maybe you can make it this way again. pe@ce... Mike.

"Legalize Freedom"

Thanks MIKE! I may be able to make it that way again soon (with someone else's help maybe) Not sure yet. . .
Yes, I love those speckleds with the "fire bellies" if you know what I mean! Have you also noticed a trend that the inland specs tend to be a paler yellow than their coastal counterparts which ususally have more orange in their pigment and overall appear brighter. I NEVER found a "fire bellied spec in central LA., but I would find them on a fairly consistent basis near the gulf in the coastal marshes. But it's nice to finally have some, LOL! First ones since I stopped breeding them back in 92/93.

Zee

couple a new tires for the front and we are there, Zee! The suburban has never run better and I can't wait to see some eastern U.S. action as well as west Texas.
No speck today just some fiesty coachwhips and a patchnose. Some paintballers invaded my spot and freaked me out so I left.
Todd

Since I have a Louisiana locality speckled king, it's a real treat to see pics of these Louisiana holbrooki in the wild. My 04 female kind of looks simular to the first female you have pictured. No doubt Holbrooki are one of my favorite of the getula. Here's my 04 female

Steve

THANKS STEVE! That's a nice one you've got there! It sure has a LOT of yellow for a 04'. They get more speckled as they get a little bigger, so yours should end up being an outstanding specimen since it already has the speckling of an adult.

Zee

NOW DAT"S WHAT I"M TALKIN" ABOUT! Thanks for the post Zee and show us dat crazy orange belly! I really want to see the almost nonexistent pattern on the underside. Lots of chocolate colored splendida pattern on mine. Great lookin' snakes.
Todd

Hey Zee. Very nice speckled kings! I currently am raising 2.1 Lafourche parish speckled kings that look quite similar. Lafourche is southwest of New Orleans. Can't wait to see what these look like as adults.
Also am in contact with a guy that is breeding Speckleds from Northeastern Louisiana. I have photos of his breeding stock and they are just spectacular looking. I am on his waiting list for babies.
I am waiting on eggs from a pair of speckleds that I own that are from near Luray Kansas which is in Russel Cty., Kansas. The pair are proven breeders and their babies are very nice.
Also raising speckleds from both Harris and Brazoria Ctys. in Texas.
I think that the speckleds are outstanding getula and rival the Eastern Kings as far as color variation. I've heard a lot of people mention that they think that speckleds have a nasty disposition, but I really don't see a lot of those characteristics in my captives. I have one young female from Harris Cty. Texas that is aggressive, but aside from her my speckleds are fairly docile.
Thanks for sharing your photos. I am pleased to see the interest in speckleds somewhat picking up as they are really great snakes to work with. The speckleds and the Eastern Black kings really seem to take a "back seat" to the rest of the getula. Taking the time to work with each has really given me a much greater appreciation for these often overlooked getula.
I welcome any correspondence with those working with either of these two subspecies. You can contact me at BLB1029@cs.com if you would like to discuss these two subspecies further.
Brad Bauserman

Thanks Brad. My speckled king breeding program is born again (since I quit breeding them 12 years ago)!!! I may even get some eggs from that 37" female I got - Who knows?

Zee

Fantastic speckled. I love the size of the ones in Louisiana. I caught many of them in Kansas, but they had a much stronger chain pattern AND never got large. I went to school in Nacogdoches, but spent lots of time hunting in Louisiana in the 70s. My faves were the speckleds.

Don
www.cornsnake.NET
South Mountain Reptiles

Thanks Don. I can recall my biggest Speckled caught in LA (Cameron parish) was a male that measured 59"! Almost 5 foot! He was nice and thick and had really nice looking speckles on him too. Wish I hadn't of sold him (to a friend in CA.)!

Zee