Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a huge batch of silkworms, and more eggs in the incubator, and it's costing me a small fortune to feed these guys chow. I thought I'd try buying some dried mulberry leaves and rehydrating them by soaking them in water. I bought the leaves from an herbal store online that gets them directly from China. No pesticides or additives, just the leaves. They weren't exactly cheap, but they are less expensive than a few pounds of powdered chow.

I rehydrated about 10 leaves and put about 30 silkworms in a separate container to be my test subjects. This was done on Wednesday this week. So far they seem to be doing great! The 30 medium sized silkies devour about half a leaf each every day. I'm going to let them cocoon and let the moths breed. If their cocoons look good and they produce a lot of eggs, the mulberry leaves might be a good alternative to purchasing the chow.

I'll keep everyone updated on my progress and findings with this research. I'll probably start an article on my website with photos too. If anyone else has tried this before please let me know. I'm interested to find out.

Hugs,
Veronica
www.beautifuldragons.com Reptile Rescue
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Beautiful Dragons

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Signature file edited; [phw 8/31/04]

Hi Veronica,

First I would like to say thank you for having such a wonderful website! I got my baby yesterday and your nutrition page has been bookmarked for a month or so Wish I had known about it before for my other herps! Your whole site is great and obviously a lot of time and care both into your beardies and your site.

Ok, on to the silkies. I would be most interested to hear if they complete their life cycle successfully (egg-adult) on the rehydrated leaves. Nutrients are definitely lost when the leaves are dried so they may not complete a cycle. However, since we are not using them for silk it may be sufficient. One person you could ask about this is Cheryl at Aurora silk to see if she has ever done it. People in the trade (silk) usually will not feed their larvae chow b/c it does not always produce healthy cocoons.
btw, what instar are these in that you are feeding? My other concern is the claim of no pesticides. Many plants HAVE to be treated in order to cross country borders. APHIS, the gov agency, might have info on this.

I have been raising wild silk moths (Saturniidae) for six years, not as feeder but hobby and population increase/conservation needs, and it is interesting to record the health of the food plant and the final adult. The Bombyx mori are "cousins" to my guys so your results would be interesting. Many in Lep rearing have experimented with freezing leaves then feeding with varied results. I personally have not.

lele
aurora silk

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0.1 Veiled - Luna
1.0 Beardie - For now his name is Kinky Boy
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha

Chameleon Help & Resource Info

veronica:
that is very interesting. And I am really interested in
finding out your results. There was two reason that I
have not gotten the silkworms, yet. And the chow was one of them.
Will be looking forward to hearing your results.
Are you going to post it on your website?

We are almost neighbors you know. LOL
I live in S. Oregon.
Did you find a yorkie?
Radena
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I wouldn't mind the information from your findings either since I'm tired of feeding all my reptiles crickets. The smell and noise is really getting annoying not to mention that I can't keep them alive and my female seems bored with them. I was going to change them over to mealworms since I was hoping to keep all my reptiles on the same diet but if silkworms are better for my dragons that would be fine too. I just wish that I had known when I got my reptiles that I'd have to feed their food along with them lol. Feeding their food can be more expensive than feeding them.

I hear ya! Just yesterday I realized I currently have more setups for my feeders than for my critters! Well, I only have a handful of critters, but still...

I recently wrote a rather lengthy and comprehensive article for www.chameleonnews.com on rearing these guys if you want to take a look. They can be some work if you don't have a mulberry tree. Roaches are a nice, clean, very easy feeder. I recently got some to begin a colony and make crickets be the occasional treat!

here's a link to the article.

lele
silkworms

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0.1 Veiled - Luna
1.0 Beardie - For now his name is Kinky Boy
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha

Chameleon Help & Resource Info

I heard you can vacuum pack the leaves and keep them good in a cold place for up to six months. I'm thinking of planting 5-10 trees this summer. Till then the roaches are working just fine, but wouldn't mind playing with silkies a little.
James

I'd try roaches but I can't find them anywhere and I'd be afraid of a few escaping and breeding in my house since I do have dogs as well so they'd have a food supply if they escaped. At least I know if the crickets escape and breed they won't be to hard to find or infest my house lol.

Roaches do not infest your home unless you live in a very hot house. They simply won't reproduce without 75-80F and with a lack of water won't last to long. Anyone I have talked to that for one reason or another have lost some say they are easier to find then crickets. Stick with the non-climbers and you will not have a problem. Look for me under the classifieds section or a few other selling roaches. I can help you with set-up or any other questions.
James

Thanks that would be great because I know that I can feed my gecko's roaches as well and I was looking for a feeder besides crickets that my beardies and geckos could eat without having to raise a ton of insects.

I actually read the article you wrote before I bought the dried mulberry leaves. I'm curious though ... what's your opinion on using dried leaves vs. chow. Does the chow contain dried mulberry leaf powder?

Thanks again for that very insightful article. It was very well written!

Veronica

>>I hear ya! Just yesterday I realized I currently have more setups for my feeders than for my critters! Well, I only have a handful of critters, but still...
>>
>>I recently wrote a rather lengthy and comprehensive article for www.chameleonnews.com on rearing these guys if you want to take a look. They can be some work if you don't have a mulberry tree. Roaches are a nice, clean, very easy feeder. I recently got some to begin a colony and make crickets be the occasional treat!
>>
>>here's a link to the article.
>>
>>lele
>>silkworms
>>
>>-----
>>0.1 Veiled - Luna
>>1.0 Beardie - For now his name is Kinky Boy
>>0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
>>1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
>>0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
>>0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
>>0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
>>
>>Chameleon Help & Resource Info
Link

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Beautiful Dragons

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Signature file edited; [phw 8/31/04]

hey, thanks! Yes, the chow does contain mulberry. I think I would need to do a bit more research first but as I said in post (I think), since we are not raising for the cocoons and if they seem healthy and cycle well I don't see why not use one over the other if it is cheaper. Still nervous about pesticides. Can I ask where you got them? (email privately if there is some reason not to post it).

One other tip...not sure who you get your silkies and chow from, but silkwormfarm.com runs customer specials, free shipping Friday's and gets involved with local rescues and stuff. Joe only started up less than a year ago, but is doing a great job! Even has a silkworm forum on his site

lele
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info

0.1 Veiled - Luna
1.0 Beardie - For now his name is Kinky Boy
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha

You're absolutely right, Joe is great! He's donated a lot of silks and food to our rescue already! He's given us so much that I may breed some of the silks to keep them coming. This will really test out how well they can be raised on the dried leaves.

I got the leaves from www.1stchineseherbs.com. The dried leaves are not listed on their site for some reason, only the mulberry leaf powder is. You have to email them and ask for it. I don't know if they are going to continue selling the leaves or not...? I may have to search for a new source. I would've bought the powder form but didn't know how to make it into the chow. Do you know how?

I'm curious about the pesticides too. The leaves are safe for human use in teas and anything else you might use them for. And it's been almost a week and I haven't had any silkies die off yet.

I'll talk with you soon.

~Veronica

>>hey, thanks! Yes, the chow does contain mulberry. I think I would need to do a bit more research first but as I said in post (I think), since we are not raising for the cocoons and if they seem healthy and cycle well I don't see why not use one over the other if it is cheaper. Still nervous about pesticides. Can I ask where you got them? (email privately if there is some reason not to post it).
>>
>>One other tip...not sure who you get your silkies and chow from, but silkwormfarm.com runs customer specials, free shipping Friday's and gets involved with local rescues and stuff. Joe only started up less than a year ago, but is doing a great job! Even has a silkworm forum on his site
>>
>>lele
>>-----
>>Chameleon Help & Resource Info
>>
>>0.1 Veiled - Luna
>>1.0 Beardie - For now his name is Kinky Boy
>>0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
>>1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
>>0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
>>0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
>>0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
Beautiful Dragons

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Beautiful Dragons

____

Signature file edited; [phw 8/31/04]

are you feeding the silkies to your bd's yet? I'd want to test out the potential fatality of the silkies (from possible pesticide) before feeding. As for the powder I do not know what else is in it, but you could try making it the same way as the regular chow. They should be able to tell you what else is in it.

If the leaves do work I maybe I could do a little experiment. I have access to unsprayed trees in the summer months at a friends home. I could try and dry some then experiment in winter. I don't know how best to dry them - I don't have access to feezre drying but someone at the university does. hmmmm - could be fun to play a round. Might also be able to find someone at the U who could test for nutrients! OK, getting ahead of myself here! lol!

keep me posted

btw, Joe has a great chow ebay bid going on right now
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0.1 Veiled - Luna
1.0 Beardie - For now his name is Kinky Boy
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
Chameleon Help & Resource Info

I am only feeding a few small groups of silkworms the dried leaves. They range in size from 1 inch to full grown. The others, that I am feeding to my reptiles, are all getting chow.

I'm getting excited about this too! It's hard not to. And the recipe for the chow is a well guarded secret! No one seems to know! That's great that you have access to mulberry trees that are not sprayed or treated.

I got another email from the owner of 1stchineseherbs and they swear up and down that the leaves are straight out of China and are not treated with anything, not even preservatives. That's why the leaves aren't in the best condition when they are dried. They are ok when rehydrated, just not like perfect picked fresh leaves. I'll get some photos this week and post some here.

Later,
Veronica

>>are you feeding the silkies to your bd's yet? I'd want to test out the potential fatality of the silkies (from possible pesticide) before feeding. As for the powder I do not know what else is in it, but you could try making it the same way as the regular chow. They should be able to tell you what else is in it.
>>
>>If the leaves do work I maybe I could do a little experiment. I have access to unsprayed trees in the summer months at a friends home. I could try and dry some then experiment in winter. I don't know how best to dry them - I don't have access to feezre drying but someone at the university does. hmmmm - could be fun to play a round. Might also be able to find someone at the U who could test for nutrients! OK, getting ahead of myself here! lol!
>>
>>keep me posted
>>
>>btw, Joe has a great chow ebay bid going on right now
>>-----
>>0.1 Veiled - Luna
>>1.0 Beardie - For now his name is Kinky Boy
>>0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
>>1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
>>0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
>>0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
>>0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
>>Chameleon Help & Resource Info
-----
Beautiful Dragons

____

Signature file edited; [phw 8/31/04]

Hi Radena,

So far so good! All the silkies on the leaves are doing great! I'll post more info when I have more results...

We found something better than a Yorkie! We got a silkie! Not a silkworm ... a Silkie Terrier! He's such a wonderful little guy and not much bigger than a Yorkie!

By the way, if you're going to be in the Salem area, email me and we can hook up. (Holachapulin@comcast.net)

Veronica

>>veronica:
>>that is very interesting. And I am really interested in
>>finding out your results. There was two reason that I
>>have not gotten the silkworms, yet. And the chow was one of them.
>>Will be looking forward to hearing your results.
>>Are you going to post it on your website?
>>
>>We are almost neighbors you know. LOL
>>I live in S. Oregon.
>>Did you find a yorkie?
>>Radena
>>
Link

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Beautiful Dragons

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Signature file edited; [phw 8/31/04]