Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am having a debate with some people on a snake group who think that feeding a large snake outside its enclosure is the best way to avoid a feeding response bite....while we all know this to be the opposite they are asking for some actual written proof so they can read it from somone other than myself.

Thanks Jason

Jason, I thought you HAD the SUBSTANTIATED information already? What I meant by substantiated are reliable articles, not more opinions. I provided links to various sources. I guess I should post that clarification?

I've spent HOURS researching this topic to find some reliable sources for info. in addition to relying on info. which I've accumulated over the years.

I even searched this forum and couldn't find anything that fits the category of substantiated.

So, folks who are going to help him find the info. he's looking for, I'm the one who requested that he provide substantiated info. I'm not looking for opinion, I'm looking for reliable articles.

Reliable info I can't say, but from personal expeirence I've tried to feed my burm out of its enclousure and afterwards taking it out has beem a very difficult task. So,I feed my burm in its encolousure. After that day it is fine and with minimal "pushing" realizes feed time is over and acts calm. however my burm is realitivelY small and i cant speak for those with big burms or more expierince wich i lack. i also was curious about this very topic and was wondering how those who keep adult species feed.
your herping hero
vicious
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1.2.1 crested geckos
0.1 burmese python
0.1 pain in the ass

Do a seach on the archives...the info is hear....check out the internet..its there also..you just choose not to accept it.
Feeding a large snake outside the enclosure is very dangerous.
How can you (a person with no large snake experience) sit there and say we are wrong?? I have no experience with garter snakes...i'm not going to read a few care sheets on them and then think i know more than the people who actually keep the snakes....that would be rediculous.
I gave you what you wanted...you dismissed it as opinon.

All I can say on this topic is I have an 8 foot burm. I have always fed her in her cage and have NEVER had a problem with her trying to bite. I just wait a day or two to let her calm down and digest a bit before I handle her. On the carnival show I worked on, we fed the 15 and 23 foot girls in their cages and again, NEVER had any problems of them trying to bite.

This is just my presonal views of course. But if my big girl even hisses when I open her cage, I just pet her a little bit and she stops. Then I can pick her up and as I said, have never had any problems.

Circusfan

This is a topic I was curious on awhile ago also, I realized that you should feed in an enclosure. I personally think that finding an article saying it is right or wrong is the worst idea ever. I have found articles that say all this stuff about snakes that are totally incorrect, I've even seen artciles on Green Anacondas, showing a picture of a yellow anaconda and giving totally incorrect information. A LOT of the people in this forum are experienced Burmese Python keepers, I would go with their opinion over some article on the internet. From my experience:

I have fed 11' tiger reticulated pythons outside of their cage, because I thought the feeding repsonse thing too, that they would get one in their cage if fed in their cage. Horrible idea if you ask me, the snakes will have a feeding repsonse after feeding them, and understand, this was an 11' tiger retic, it could do some damage, but no where near compared to a 16' burmese python. If you want to deal with feeding a 16' burm outside of the enclosure and moving it back without it snapping at you, have at it, but I would say get a lot of insurance I've realized that you are feeding 5% of the time you open the cage, otherwise you are going to handle, clean, change water, whatever. 5% of the time is not enough for the snake to snap at you everytime you open the cage.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I'm just trying to help you out on the topic. A reliable source would be the people that own the snakes and have had experience in the subject. I also have a 7' Green Anaconda, I've fed it in it's cage it's WHOLE life, I've had it since it was about 3 weeks old. It's the tamest snake I own, absolutly no feeding response, in or out of the water. I have fed a semi-large snake outside of the cage, and I can tell you that it is just not a good idea. Hope this helps! But if I have offended anyone's opinion or anything in anyway, please don't go off on me, because I'm sorry, I'm just stating my opinion and trying to help this subject.
~Ben R.

You are 100% correct...but some people seem to believe care sheets over experience...and that is somthing that can get people hurt.

Right OK, I have watched these debates come up a few times before, and seeing as the people posting them want facts on this subject here goes; (only one fact needed!!!!!!!!!)

NO-ONE HAS BEEN KILLED BY THEIR PET PYTHON FEEDING IT IN ITS CAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOOK IT UP, I AM RIGHT! Almost everyone who has been killed by a burmese python in captivity, has been down to feeding the animals outwith its enclosure. FACT!!

Feeding in the cage is by far the safest option for any snake.

Cheers

Phil

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1.0 Albino Burmese ,

Its refreshing to see some very responsible opinions being posted here. This has been a topic of heated debate but for anyone who has experience in keeping large constrictors, feeding INSIDE the cage is ALWAYS the way you want to go; I would even go so far as saying its an absolute. You can read what you want in "articles", "magazines" and even books, but anyone who has a lot of REAL experience in working with large constrictors will tell someone that feeding inside the cage is the safest method of feeding these animals. With a few common sense steps/approaches, there is absolutely nothing to be worried about.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

>>Right OK, I have watched these debates come up a few times before, and seeing as the people posting them want facts on this subject here goes; (only one fact needed!!!!!!!!!)
>>
>>NO-ONE HAS BEEN KILLED BY THEIR PET PYTHON FEEDING IT IN ITS CAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>LOOK IT UP, I AM RIGHT! Almost everyone who has been killed by a burmese python in captivity, has been down to feeding the animals outwith its enclosure. FACT!!
>>
>>Feeding in the cage is by far the safest option for any snake.
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Phil
>>
>>
>>
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>> 1.0 Albino Burmese ,
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Rob...how many of your snakes expect food when you open the cage door?? I'm willing to bet its about zero.
Got any idea how many you have worked with over the years

It's not so much that they don't expect food (they do) but it is the procedures that I have in place that basically eliminates any problems from stupid feeding errors. My burms know the difference between feeding time and "play" time because I do the same thing EVERY time when taking them out (I do one thing for feeding and something different when taking them out).

As far as how many burms I have worked with over the years (most coming to our facility for rehab but a dozen that I have kept as education animals; some very long term), that's a real tough one. My guess, which is probably low, is something around 400 burms (that doesn't include the many that I used to breed).

Take care, Rob

>>Rob...how many of your snakes expect food when you open the cage door?? I'm willing to bet its about zero.
>>Got any idea how many you have worked with over the years
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

well i have 1 burm that i fed inside its cage and it was really tame once it was about 10ft it i went to feed it inside its cage then i was dropping the rat and my burm bit and ripped up my hand so now i have another burm that i feed outside its cage and its doing fine it doesnt snap at me or anything ive only been bitten once by my bigger one and it hurt a little bit.

And as a result of the feeding error, are you dead?

Just curious

Phil
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1.0 Albino Burmese Python, , 1.0 Giant Day Gecko, 1.0 Gargoyle Gecko, 0.1 Border Collie, 1.0 Syrian Hamster

The following discussion is very informative. I do not keep large constrictors myself, thus am another outsider looking in.
As far as looking for credited information, books, magazine articles, caresheets, or whatever you consider substantial information is all written by very experienced keepers, nothing more. There is no laboratory studies on feeding responses in reptiles. Who would finance such a study?

The only thing to do when deciding if an opinion is credible is finding out if that person is credible. While many people in this forum are very experienced, there are many yahoo's here as well. Rob Carmicheal is my endorsement as the most experienced here. His credentials are listed at the bottom of his posts as curator of a reptile zoo in Illinios. There are other awesome keepers here, I just do not know them as well yet