Reptile & Amphibian Forums

john,regarding thayeri, you mentioned a few days ago that you have a routine for getting stubborn feeders to eat. i wonder if you could explain what steps you take. also any others who have successful techniques,please contribute. with luck, i may be breeding my thayeri this season and would appreciate any advice from those more experienced. thanks. Rin

Rin,
First off good luck with your thayeri project.
Every year I have a few stubborn feeders that I have to get feeding on mice. Here is a summary of what I do.

Step 1: Offer live newborn pinkie. If it is refused then....

Step 2: Offer brained, live pinkie. The brained pinkie is cut from snout to base of skull. If it is taken, reduce the incision each time until it is no longer necessary to stimulate feeding. If it is refused then....

Step 3: Offer the brained, live pinkie under a dark, nontranslucent bowl with the stubborn feeder. Cover the snake and the prey and check in about 30 minutes or so. This has been the most effective method w/o scenting involved. If the snake refuses then...

Step 4: I lizard has to be obtained. I use Med. House Geckos. Freeze the lizard in a deep freeze right away for about 1 hour. Get a live newborn pinky and put the frozen mouse and a pink in a container together and remove from freezer. The warmth of the pinkie will absorb the scent. Place it under a dark bowl with the snake and check in about 30 minutes or so. If the snake refuses then....

Step 5: Thaw out the lizard and cut its abdomen open. Dip the head of the pinkie into the guts of the lizard. Place some skin from the lizard on the pinky's head and place under the dark bowl with the snake. If this fails then....

Step 6: Most people would go ahead and repeat all the steps above for about 6 to 8 weeks until they get results. If the stubborn feeder does not feed then drop its temps to around 55 or 60 degrees for about 6 to 8 weeks. After removal from the temps repeat all the steps above.
Other people would feed then small lizards or lizard parts. I have had luck feeding them about 4 to 5 lizard meals then scenting pinks with such lizards. I have also had luck hibernating and then feeding. Remember if you start forcefeeding you will have to continue to do so to keep weight on the snake. It also stresses the snake out and it is harder to get them to start feeding on their own. Also, forcefeeding will kick in their metabolism and they will need to keep eating to keep on weight. They can live for months on the eggyolk absorbed in the egg. Just letting them wait on a winter cooling usually helps alot for spring feeding. I hear of people forcefeeding mouse tails successfully, but I have never even attempted it. The only force feeding I have done has had a low percentage of success. I have blended pinkies and used pinky pumps. I have even used Veal Gerbers baby food mixed with Pedialyte and Multivitamins successfully, but again it stressed the snake.
This is my abridged version but it should help you out. If you have any problems getting any thing eating drop me an email and I would be glad to help you out. Snakes are individual and each need a little something to get them convinced to eat pinkies and frozen thawed pinkies too.
I hope this helps you out Rin and others,
John Lassiter

great info. i will give your techniques a try this summer. Thanks very much. Good luck to you with your breeding. Rin

You are welcome Rin.....
Good luck and keep us posted on your project...
John Lassiter

John,
There should a sticky on that post! Awesome info. Is there a stubborn feeder area you could get that posted in permanently? I just went thru alot of those probs in the last year and wish i knew where to look to find all that info in one post!
Thanks Jim

Dealing with picky feeders.......Thats where this post needs to be put with a sticky! Now who can put the sticky!

Jim

he helped me with one of my mex mex's this winter when it wanted to go into burmation. I used those steps and eventually got him to eat. That feeding information for troublesome feeders does work. Nice post.
Good Job John,
Uncloudy
Chris

Thanks guys....
One thing we need to change is the common misconception that Mexicana are the ONLY picky or troublesome feeders. It is a misconception since there are many corns and getula kings that are troublesome as well.
Before I knew all these "tricks" to get picky feeders to eat I lost a few snakes, including some getula. Once I learned my step by step process I only lost 1 out of 47 hatchlings the last two years. I think their are a lot of people that think Mexicana are not worth messing with (not here but on other forums). I think some they are well worth the little extra effort. It isn't even that much of an extra effort in my opinion.
Mexicana are by far the most variable in color and pattern...
Look at the far more common getula species. The majority of all of them are black and white or brown and cream/yellow. I am talking about calkings in the west, Splendida moving east and Mexican black kings to the south. Then you have Holbrooki farther east. Then Nigrita and the farthest east getula you will find Easterns, Outer banks and Blotched and Floridana to the south of them. Their base colors are black and white especially in comparison to the oranges, reds, yellows, tans, creams, blacks, greys, peaches, maroons and silvers you will find in the Mexicana species.
This variability can be achieved by plain ole het for nothing Mexicana..........And that is why I keep and breed them. They have got to be the most docile and colorful kingsnake one can keep.
This is all my honest opinion......
John Lassiter

I agree completely with what John said about the common misconception of the mexicana subspecies being troublesome feeders.
Currently I don't burmate any of my snakes over the winter for breeding and have had some feeding problems with other species including calkings and even corns. At species of Lampropeltis at any time can have feeding problems and what John outlined as steps to get them feeding applies to them all.
Happy Herping,
Uncloudy

I know lots of hobbiest that just don't think its worth it to spend the time to get picky feeders going on pinkys. And I guess if your baby cornsnake is only going to bring $20.00.....??
On the other hand if you've got a $100.00 thayeri its probably worth it to put the extra effort into getting them started on pinks.

This thayeri almost died because I could'nt get her to feed. I tried every trick John spelled out plus tease feeding and nothing would work.

Finally a friend reminded me of an old trick I'd forgotten about. It really works better for cornsnakes but it did the trick for me in this instance. I dipped the pinky in chicken broth. She took it the first time.

Yep Chris that has worked for me too.
The steps above are an Abridged version w/o some of the "tricks" included.....
Great you got that one feeding....It sure is a looker...
John Lassiter

Jim,
Only the moderator can post a message or thread with a sticky.
Email me and I will send it to you via email....
Later,
John Lassiter

You have my e-mail! And lets bombard the mod. with requests...lol
Jim

I sent it already Jim....
Anyone can copy and paste it into their own email server and save it as a note....
I use Microsoft Outlook and it is simple to use....
John Lassiter

I have lot's of success simply tease feeding juv thayeri with a F/T pink. Hold the snake in your left hand at mid-body, grab a pink with foreceps and tap the snake on the nose and neck with the pink. Once the snake grabs the head, release the pink, let the snake dangle for a few seconds with the pink in his mouth, then very slowly lower the snake into his shoebox....and DON'T MOVE! Once the head is down the throat then you can step back or put the box back on the shelf without the snake spitting it out. I recommend dimming the lights too....don't tease feed under bright light. Good luck. DV

Good information Dan....I too have done that a few times...It is frustrating after they spit out the pinkie a dozen times but it works more often than not.....
John Lassiter