Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I currently have in my possesion (temporarily - until Saturday) a water snake. I had thought that it was a northern water snake, but yesterday a friend of mine, who has been involved in snakes for many years, told me that it looks like a copperbelly water snake, or possibly an intergrade between the two.

Can you help me out and post photos of the bellies of your snakes (particularly northerns vs copperbellies) and tell me what kind they are so I can better identify what I have. It would be VERY awesome (and scary at the same time) to know that I have an endangered species in my care.

Thanks so much.
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alstiver@hotmail.com

1.0 '01 Hypo snow cornsnake (Tesla)
0.1 '02 Ghost (pastel) cornsnake (Banshee)
1.1 '02 Bloodred cornsnakes (Desi and Luci Too)
1.0 WC Water snake (temporary pet - treating it for a cut on it's neck)
0.0.3 Goldfish (Kabuki, Isamu, and Yuki)
1.0 American Eskimo mutt (Rusty)

I am also Rehabing what I was told is a northern water snake, and I looked at the pictures and it looks right, but I haven't compaired bellies, haven't seen a pic, so this would be helpful to me too, if he survives (read post below about Lil' Guy's tail).
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~~~ Krystal - Future breeder of Pythons, Geckos, we'll see what else later! Specalizing in Ball Pythons and Leopard Geckos ~~~ www.geocities.com/krystal19_85 ~~~

There are a bunch of N. sipedon ventral photos on the link below. There are also
sipedon photos

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Tim

Tim,

It's nice to see someone else from Iowa! I was raised in a small town of Glenwood for most of my younger days and finally moved to VA. There are times I miss the area....but NOT during the winter months! LOL

I also miss finding Bull snakes, they don't have them in Virginia....we just have Timber rattlers, Copperheads, and Cottonmouths, well....then all of other non-dangerous snakes, like Hognose, Corns,Pines,Northern Waters, Racers, Green snakes and a number of others.

Just wanted to say Hi to a fellow Iowian!
HD

There are a bunch of N. sipedon ventral photos on the link below. There are also some erythrogaster photos to compare if you back out and select plainbelly watersnake. They are very similar to the copperbellies. Hope they help.
sipedon photos

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Tim

The snake I have looks like neither really, more like a cross between the 2. I wonder if it really is an intergrade between a northern and a copperbelly. The belly of the one I have is darker like a northern, but has fairly distinct red markings, especially down the center of the belly. The dark markings are more of a speckling than the cresents that I hear people talk about when they talk about a northern's belly. Also this snake's dorsal side is extremely dark and what little pattern I can make out looks more like that of a copperbelly, with extremely thin light colored bands.

I haven't gotten any good pictures or else I would post them for you guys to tell me what you think. Maybe I'll get some pics later.

By the way, thanks for the link.
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alstiver@hotmail.com

1.0 '01 Hypo snow cornsnake (Tesla)
0.1 '02 Ghost (pastel) cornsnake (Banshee)
1.1 '02 Bloodred cornsnakes (Desi and Luci Too)
1.0 WC Water snake (temporary pet - treating it for a cut on it's neck)
0.0.3 Goldfish (Kabuki, Isamu, and Yuki)
1.0 American Eskimo mutt (Rusty)

Northerns occasionally have a fine speckling rather than the half moons mentioned. Also their dorsal pattern sometimes fades to a near uniform coloration. I have seen 2 snakes that appear to be northern x copperbelly crosses, though no proof obviously.

Where was the snake found?

Joe
http://www.herpnet.net

.
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alstiver@hotmail.com

1.0 '01 Hypo snow cornsnake (Tesla)
0.1 '02 Ghost (pastel) cornsnake (Banshee)
1.1 '02 Bloodred cornsnakes (Desi and Luci Too)
1.0 WC Water snake (temporary pet - treating it for a cut on it's neck)
0.0.3 Goldfish (Kabuki, Isamu, and Yuki)
1.0 American Eskimo mutt (Rusty)

We have a bunch of photos of venters of northern and copper belly watersnakes: http://www.herpnet.net
Click on Iowa Herpetology then, reptiles.

Yes it should be a little scary knowing you have an endangered copper belly, and hugely expensive if your caught! We all know that these message boards are monitored by Fish and Game Officials, so I would suggest you find out for sure what you have.

Have you read about the major herp bust last month in Ohio, Indiana, etc? Did anyone else have news about that situation?

Joe

Well, I'm not planning on keeping it, whatever it is. It was injured when I found it and I was only keeping it until the scrape looked healed enough so as not to get infected. The scrape looks pretty good now, so I am planning on releasing it tomorrow. I know about Ohio's rule's that you must contact ODNR within 10 days of collecting a snake to get a licence, so I knew not to keep it longer than 10 days.

I live in Ohio and found it in western Medina county.

Yes, I know about the bust at the Columbus show. From what I've heard is that even though some people had perfectly legal animals at the show, they had previously committed crimes conserning wild caught animals and that's why they were busted, not because of what they had at that particular show.
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alstiver@hotmail.com

1.0 '01 Hypo snow cornsnake (Tesla)
0.1 '02 Ghost (pastel) cornsnake (Banshee)
1.1 '02 Bloodred cornsnakes (Desi and Luci Too)
1.0 WC Water snake (temporary pet - treating it for a cut on it's neck)
0.0.3 Goldfish (Kabuki, Isamu, and Yuki)
1.0 American Eskimo mutt (Rusty)

Just to let you know (not trying to preach at you!) But even picking up an endangered species can lead to high fines - there is no 10 day rule with these animals. The big busts show me that the various Fish and Game Depts are very serious about this stuff.
About the busts - I don't know the details but I'm curious how or why they would arrest people at a swap meet for a previous transgression? Did you hear this from a relible source?

Joe

Well I released the snake today. I think it was most likely just an aberrant northern, but only it knows for sure, and it's not talking.

As far as the bust goes, a vendor at the Columbus show, who sometimes tends to exadurate, told me that the police/wardens arrested vendors because of things they heard through email, phone taps, etc. While this may be true, I doubt much of it will hold up in court. Who knows though.

I just feel bad for the animals. What happened to them? I heard from another person that in the past when these types of things have happened, the animals usually get killed to preserve them for the trial. That REALLY sucks if that happened in this case too.

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alstiver@hotmail.com

1.0 '01 Hypo snow cornsnake (Tesla)
0.1 '02 Ghost (pastel) cornsnake (Banshee)
1.1 '02 Bloodred cornsnakes (Desi and Luci Too)
0.0.3 Goldfish (Kabuki, Isamu, and Yuki)
1.0 American Eskimo mutt (Rusty)