Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So, yesterday Roxy was her overly fat and happy self (you may remember my other post about the concerns about her weight possibly being the result of doing the nasty with Runako). Well, today I was about to feed them, when my wife said she looked "deflated" or sick. Well, she was back to the size of Runako. After some hesitation, I started going through all the sand where it had been built up over the last week or two. Like an archialogical whiz that I'm not, I carefully moved sand around looking for what I'm not ready to find. Allowing the sand to "move itself" by means of whisking away the bottoms of mounds, I started to unearth this (the sand was up to and spilling out the vent in this picture):

Continuing with the excavation, revealled 19 eggs in all (14 shown here, three already in the temporary incubator, and two bad ones.

Now, she's replenishing her weight by eating like a pig.

So I guess now, I'll need to cram for the test of being a uro serrogate.

Any feedback, help, ideas?

Jim
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2.1 - Rocky, Runako, and RoxyIII (my care sheets)

i just wanted to say congrats! that is quite a surprise. i would give her an extra dose of calcium since the eggs take so much out of them. i hope they hatch for you
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vonnie
***There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. Mary Wilson Little ***

The calcium's a good idea, especially if you can get some oral liquid calcium. I would give her a soak, too. It was recommended to me after Arthur clutched to feed carrots, pumpkin, and squashes - it's supposed to help them with elimination. Congratulations to you and good luck with the eggs!!
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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1 Uromastyx geyri (Joe and Arthur)
3.0 Uromastyx dispar maliensis (Tank, Turtle, and Spike)
1.0 Uromastyx ornata (Scuttlebutt)
2.1 Anolis carolinensis (Bowser, Sprocket, and Leeloo)
0.1 African dwarf frog (Sheila)
1.0 Betta splendens (Mr. Miagi)
1.1 Felis domesticus (Roscolux and Jenny)

hey jimbo, i checked out you great site. i read about lizzy and im very sorry to hear about what happened to her. im concerned about the whole lead issue and i wanted to ask you if there is lead in bricks? they're cement so i kind've figure yes? i havnt a clue to what kind of slate i have but i can say that it sure dont look like rock but more like cemented. my bricks are dyed also. i use bricks for the base of the slate that runs from one side to the back of enclosure to the other side. bricks are covered in playsand then my slates run on top of them and he burrows around them. and that was kinda the purpose of the bricks to, so that he can make caves.
anyhow have many uro (or any reptile for the matter) have suffered death from lead? is it a likely thing to happen if it is in the enclosure?
hope to hear back from you soon. thnx for reading

>>hey jimbo, i checked out you great site. Thanks, but it really needs to be re-done...again. i read about lizzy and im very sorry to hear about what happened to her. im concerned about the whole lead issue and i wanted to ask you if there is lead in bricks? they're cement so i kind've figure yes? When you say they're cement, do you mean like cinder blocks? Cinder blocks I'm very weary about as that was one of the items I had in my enclosure. Not to say that others haven't been using them without any problems, but it's possible. i havnt a clue to what kind of slate i have but i can say that it sure dont look like rock but more like cemented. Most reputable herp places should carry some kind of safe slate or flat rock. I think I remember a post that Home Depot (or like retailer) carries flagstone that you can buy by the piece. my bricks are dyed also. i use bricks for the base of the slate that runs from one side to the back of enclosure to the other side. bricks are covered in playsand then my slates run on top of them and he burrows around them. and that was kinda the purpose of the bricks to, so that he can make caves. If I remember correctly, one big problem was the fact that uros lick their surroundings. so burying the bricks may not be so bad, but dyed....? With what? If you don't know, just take that into consideration.
>> anyhow have many uro (or any reptile for the matter) have suffered death from lead? is it a likely thing to happen if it is in the enclosure? I've only had the one, and from my readings here, I haven't seen it except for maybe one other time. Not necessarily that it's unlikely of happening, but maybe because most people are either researching (as you) or just purchasing stuff at pet stores and therefore not subjecting their uros to anything hazardous. I hope this helps a bit.
>> hope to hear back from you soon. thnx for reading

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2.1 - Rocky, Runako, and RoxyIII (my care sheets)

Congratulations, very exciting news! Now for the hard part, incubation. I have not incubated uro eggs, but from the information I have it seems 70/30 vermiculite/water or perlite/water is the medium. Temps around 88-90 degrees with incubation from 70-85 days. I found with the monitors it is best to use one large box than many small boxes in the incubator. Don't move or touch the eggs once set up. The only thing I have not found in anything I have read is the "ideal" amount of humidity. Too much and the eggs mold, too little and they shrivel. Judging by the ratio of medium and water, the uro eggs require less humidity than my monitors. Please keep in mind my information is from reading various sources written by well known uro people. I use a 50/50 ratio and incubate with 85-90% humidity for my monitors. For myself, I like perlite better than vermiculite. I put a humidistat in the incubation box. Never wet the eggs, if you need more moisture, just use an eyedropper or syringe and add water to the medium. I was told to open the incubation box once a week for "gas" exchange. I followed everything I was told to the letter and voila, I have hatchlings. As an old monitor breeder always says, getting the eggs is easy, getting them to hatch is hard. I just use the styro hovabator and it works fine. Best of luck!!!

Pam

Thanks for the info. The eggs all came out a bit sunken...not all over, but like on one or two sides. I'm thinking this was because they were buried in playsand just out of direct basking spot light. I have no idea where to get perlite. When you say a mix, of perlite and what? (Maybe you mentioned it and I missed it).

I have the eggs in a styrofoam box that one of the uros came in, with a ceramic heater over them keeping them at 93F per Deer Farms page. I don't have a humidity gauge and until your post, hadn't seen anything on humidity guidelines. The more time that goes by, the more I'm thinking that it's doubtful any of the eggs will hatch. That's disappointing, but ok, as I will be better prepared next time.

Jim
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2.1 - Rocky, Runako, and RoxyIII (my care sheets)

...mean that they definately will NOT hatch? Even one baby would be so cool!
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2.1 - Rocky, Runako, and RoxyIII (my care sheets)

usually if the eggs look like they are fertile and they have sunken in sides, it means that they need more moisture. with my collared eggs, if they are ever soft i add more water to the vermiculite and they harden back up.
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vonnie
***There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. Mary Wilson Little ***

this is more like a suggestion and a question for uro egg experts. i know with the collared eggs it is best to have a lid on the actual container holding the eggs and on a deli cup sized container we cut a quarter sized hole in the "lid" not that i am getting uro eggs anytime soon, but is that a good thing for uro eggs too?
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vonnie
***There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. Mary Wilson Little ***

What I was told (after I'd already lost my eggs ) was yes, seal them. Mine weren't sealed and I couldn't keep the humidity up properly, hence the shrivelled up eggs. Make sure the deli cup (or whatever) has pinholes in the lid or around the rim. Open them every few days - once a week at least - for gas exchange like Pam said. You can also put a shim under one edge of the cup so that any moisture that condenses on the lid won't drip onto the eggs. I was also told that the turbofan model isn't the best choice since the fan dries the eggs too much, but I don't know if that matters if the cups are sealed.

Please keep in mind this is secondhand information and I wrecked my eggs, so take it for what it's worth!
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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1 Uromastyx geyri (Joe and Arthur)
3.0 Uromastyx dispar maliensis (Tank, Turtle, and Spike)
1.0 Uromastyx ornata (Scuttlebutt)
2.1 Anolis carolinensis (Bowser, Sprocket, and Leeloo)
0.1 African dwarf frog (Sheila)
1.0 Betta splendens (Mr. Miagi)
1.1 Felis domesticus (Roscolux and Jenny)

Perlite comes from a lawn and garden center. It is used to help keep moisture in potting soil I think. The ratio is with water 70% perlite or vermiculite and 30% water by weight. If you have a gram scale, that's the best because it has the tare feature, so your measurements are 100% accurate. I use the disposable thinner rubbermaid or ziplock food containers. Fill the container at least 2/3 full and just have a small portion of the egg exposed at the top. Punch in very small holes in the top. Perlite looks like little white pebbles and I was told it is more "forgiving" as far as moisture goes. Never throw out an egg until in rots, molds or really shrivels up. Do not handle the eggs, the oil from our hands is not good for them. Humidity is a necessity, otherwise the eggs will dry up. Maybe Doug could help you with the humidity. That's the problem I had with my first monitor eggs, and nobody addressed the problem until I went to this reptile shop. That guy was so nice he told me step by step exactly what to do. You really need to get the eggs set up soon though. Best of luck!

Pam

Jimbo,

Normally I would not suggest changing things too much once incubation starts (i.e. moving eggs, changing temps…ect) but with the heat source directly on top of the exposed eggs, I am not certain what choice you have right now.

From your description, the eggs definitely need some moisture. The only thing that comes to mind without using a substrate and lid would be to add a small cup of water to the box 'if' you can secure it without disturbing the eggs or risking the cup spilling. The more surface area, the more evaporation, the more humidity. If this is very temporary, folded moist paper towel (not touching the eggs) may work. The towels would need to be moistened often and this may change the temp by a few degrees but it could be a quick temporary solution until you decide what you want to do.

If you do decide to move the eggs to a different setup, I would suggest checking the temperature they are at now and using that same temperature in the new setup. Have the new setup AT that temperature prior to moving the eggs. Make sure that when moving the eggs to the new incubator that you keep them in the same position they are in now.

I do agree with Pam about not throwing out the eggs until they rot.

A few years ago I had a uro clutch that went bad several weeks into incubation. I left the eggs until they were molded and shriveled to almost nothing. I dissected one of the eggs to look at the development of the embryo under a microscope and found an embryo with a very strong heartbeat. Granted, it was only a matter of time as the mold was continuing to deteriorate the shell but it was amazing how far gone these eggs were and the embryo still had a heartbeat.

If the eggs have not changed color, are not odoriferous, and do not have mold, then this is a good thing. I would suggest working on the moisture level immediately and see what happens.

thanks for the info, I am going to copy and save it to a word doc. Lots of questions answered. I did email Doug, but anyone who has dealt with him, knows how busy he is and I have yet to heear back.

As for the eggs, they all continued to deteriorate and actually turned that yellow "wet" color. Unfortunately, I discarded them as I'm fairly confident nothing would come of them. I didn't plan on the excitement that occured when she did in fact lay eggs, so I do plan to be ready with the next clutch laying.

I think most of my questions were answered, however, does anyone know the actual humidity level?

thanks again to all.

Jim
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2.1 - Rocky, Runako, and RoxyIII (my care sheets)

oh that sucks about the eggs. it really is trial and error. i have found it is much easier having an actual incubator. better luck next time
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vonnie
***There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. Mary Wilson Little ***