Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If tree monitors are given a large enough pool to retreat to, will they use it to defecate, or do they just let fly from above?

Do monitors have the usual (to me) defecation components of clear liquid, albumin-like white urates, and a formed fecal mass?

Roger

np

the feces type depends on the diet. It will either be runny mess, or a solid mass. The urates can be present by themselves or with the feces and yes it is white.

Some monitors use the water some do not. It doesn't matter the species its more individual. It also seems to be whatever they feel like doing. Some of mine defecate one day just on the substrate, next in water tub, next they let it fly out of the cage, or up on the glass.

Being aliving animal they are in a constant state of change so never expect them to stay repetative for too long.

Thank you for the answer. And thank you, too, who answered me directly. I value your experience. For three years I've been figuring out different setups for a croc monitor.(Yep) My herp room (10 X 12 bedroom) is the best bet, if I cover the floor with 6 mill visqueen. I can build a wild-wood trellis wall to wall up by the ceiling so he can have his arboreal kicks. He could have the run of the room, basking in the sunlight that comes through the window, scamper around on his "tree canopy", or move down into cooler zones on the floor.

The only problem I forsee is having huge messes to clean up every day. I'd get an aacrylic bathtub for soaking, with a drain that runs into a small home-made septic box, with an indoor hose bib (I'm a building contractor, so I can build almost any accomodations. The tub and little septic box would be the easy part. It's the giant floor-craps that hold me back.

Do I have it right that a grown croc would be ok in a room that size? I would wait for brand new hatchlings, hoping to get on friendly terms with one before it got big enough to scalp me. I am aware that I can't count on forcing any individual croc into adopting a different personality, so I'm ready for a display-only relationship.

I assume that tree monitors do not need to burrow? Am I right about that? Except for gravid females.

I know how to keep and raise pigeons, the plain city-park kind, and it seems to me that pigeons would make a perfect snack for a croc. Where I live chickens are cheap also.

I'm planning to completely animal-proof the room so no mouse or anything could find a deep crack and hide. That way I'd be able to put mice and rat pups in the room so the croc could get at them. I'd plan on training him to eat pre-killed prey once he becomes established. I'm in my mid-fifties, so I would will some money somehow to be assured he'd be well cared for if I should get hit by a bus. I'm still trying to think that one through.

I want to ask you readers if you have any suggestions for me. I'm very dedicated, have adequate vet (really good herp vet team) and food money, and I like to do things on a large scale. Wanting a croc has been torturing me for three years now.

What do you-all think of my story? Should I duck now?

Btw I do have a lizard-keeping background, but this post is getting way too long.

Roger

hope you can swim. Croc monitors are not great for begining an adventure into owning monitors. Especially if you want to be able to work with them. Basically you should start out small and learn how to work the tool before jumping right into something big and powerful. Start with a BB gun before going right for the AK. Haha something like that anyways

Ok now about your romm/cage. The space is only part of what you need. You also need the enviroment within the space which is more important. Without that all the space in the world is useless. Be sure the room can handle the temps, and humidity. Also you'll want some substrate on the ground. Croc monitors like to dig and burrow into leaf litter. It also helps supply them with another set of conditions an enviroment within and enviroment so to speak.

In most cases unless you want the room to be trashed it is not a good idea. It is better to build a room size enclosure then to use a room for the enclosure. Unless the room has been built to handle the conditions needed for monitor living. Most of them are designed for humans not for rpetiles.

You know, I guess I know that, but it'sd buried in my desire to get involved with a Croc. I do know I really shouldn't do it, so I'll probably just keep dreaming about it.

I could paper the walls of the room with Visqueen (stapled to the sheetrock, and insulate it wall-to-wall with rigid foam, ceiling too. And a good, high-volume humidifier. That would make a good environment.

I could probably get ready for a Croc with 12 hours work and $300. But I have this fantasy that I could tame it, just because I want to. I know I can't count on that, so out the window with that huge project.

Maybe I'll start with Argus monitors. I know they are buttheads, but that's part of their appeal to me. I could give two Argus's the run of my herp room. Wow that sounds good to me, thinking as I type. I could give them a kiddie pool 1/3 full of soil for their digging needs.

Thank you for your non-judgmental reply, BTW.

Roger

Roger

you've thought it all through I respect that. To me thats the makings of a good keeper.

Crocs are not all that bad I find them easy to work with. But the problem is if you forget they come equipped with weapons thats when trouble happens. If you always remember the gun is loaded and handle it with care you'll do alirght. Just don't get them if you want to hug, hold, kiss and cuddle them. You are also right in thinking not all will be calm, I have one that is down right a butthead. If you did decide to get one my advice would be to get a captive born one as young as you can get it. Then let it get used to you and build a trust.

I also have argus monitors they are awesome monitors too. Less danger with them then a croc monitor. A large tub of dirt will get thrown all over the place. Mine dig like a badger. They are alot of fun to watch.

I wish you luck with either way you decide to go.

Take care

That sounds really interesting. Maybe I'll get the Argus', and watch them on cctv. Dig like a badger - LOL

For digging, maybe I could have a box, about 4 ft tall, 3 ft wide, six feet long, half full of dirt, with ramps, branches etc all over the place so they could get in and out. With 2 feet of freeboard, maybe the mess will be less. The top front freeboard can be a piece of tempered glass so I can watch. I'm getting very interested in this.

Will they use a water tub? For defecating, or maybe for just a swim?

Will your Argus eat pre-killed prey?

Roger

yes they wil eat pre killed prey, f/t prey, or live prey. they are not picky.

If the water tub is large enough most monitors wil use it for defecating. My argus rarely will soak or swim they use the tub mainly for drinking or to toss dirt in and make mud. haha

q

Convert partial room at first, corner out 6-8 feet, preferably a wall towards a restroom with access to plumbing (best to have drain and water supply for easy maintenance). Salvadorii stool is very potent smelling. If your tub is large enough and you happen to obtain a croc which likes to deficate in water you can get away with very little maintenance and spot clean when neccesary. You will need to have the enclosure fairly air tight with vents leading directly outside. The complete structure will need to be enclosed with your choice of wood, no drywall. Build the tub atleast 1 foot above where you are going to place any substrait to limit cloggin of the drain. Build a hide spot above ground that is approximatly 2x2 and atleast 4 feet deep and fully enclosed except for the entry, deeper if you have an adult. Running water is also possitive as most Crocs enjoy the visuals and sound of running water and will usualy provide enough humidity so you will not have to deal with that issue on a constant basis. It is also important to have large wood structures extending to the top of the enclosure(wood, tree limbs, large diameter with a few large stumps) also shelving is possitive, use every wall if possible and provide somthing for the Lizard to climb up or hang on to. Croc's like to just hang on walls. Try not to clutter the ground space as they tend to enjoy digging (recommend sand due to the enclosure being inside the home). The 6 foot area, 8 feet in height will accomodate a croc monitor until about 5-6 feet, then you should consider enlarging the enclosure. From 7 foot plus the monitor will have the potential to cause very serious damage, try not to obtain this size at first, under 5 foot is best to start out with and most available croc's are about that size. If you have owned other monitors, Salvadorii are not that much different until the reach 6.5-7 foot.

I have to disagree with your choice for a hide spot.. First off, I would try to incorporate several different hide spots, oriented differently(horizontal, vertical, diagonal, etc) at different levels in the cage, offering different temperature zones that the animal can choose to rest at..

But a 2'x2'x4' hide spot is not tight fitting at all, and does not provide any sense of security to the animal. Monitors, and many other animals- mammals too, like to secure themselves in tight fitting areas- tree hollows, crevices, etc... as it gives them a sense of security, being able to feel the walls of the tree hollow or crevice on their body.. 2'x2' is too wide to allow any sense of security. I would suggest making the hide spots much more narrower/slender, possibly using some type of tubing, or building a wooden box- probably about 10 or 12" in diameter for an adult..

I feel that too many people provide their animals with improper/insufficient hiding spots. For example, people using rubbermaid sweaterboxes for hides with tiny monitors, such as V. prasinus or V. glauerti, tristis, etc... or people making "Retes Stacks that are 4" tall for ackies... In both of these situations, the animals are not able to wedge themselves into anything, instead, they are forced to just sit beneath an object- still vulnerable to predation, or seek refuge in a big, empty cavity, which also does not offer any security...

Monitors like tight fitting hidespots.. I think that this is very important to their husbandry....

Cheers, just thought I'd throw in my $.02 on this one... Take care,

Bob
treemonitors.com

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TheOdatriad

For a moderately large monitor, how about two pieces of T-111, 2 ftX6 Ft each, spaced 3 inches apart? It could stand up, leaning against the wall, anchored there with a screw into a stud. (BTW this is a question.)

Roger

hatchling. I was thinking about constructing a network of branches and limbs aboutt 7 feet off the floor, so the croc can explore the whole room from above. Plus I'd give a couple of 8 inch diameter oak limbs mounteed vertically so he cam get up and down.

Roger

You can put stumps, branches etc at all angles, walls are good too, you will need wire as cork will get ripped up too bad. As far as hiding places, i always make mine large, because my larger croc's are about a foot wide, they cannt turn around in anything under 2 feet unless i were to leave the other end open(which i dont). I have 2 gravid now. Both i have seen copulating(time will tell, all my previous eggs were infertile). I made small portable enclosures so i can keep a closer eye on them and moved them into my garage 4x8 and up. I would think it best to build your enclosure in your garage as i tried to convert a few rooms before, honostly i could not keep the smell from entering the rest of the house no matter how i set them up. It may work for smaller monitors, these really make a mess of it.

"Honostly" I see a alot of nose rub on your guys"crocmonitor" . Lots of "orange", jungle shed, meaning either you keep em outside or you just got them in. Since you just showed up on the scene less than a month ago, I'm gonna call bluff.

You got 2 that look gravid now right? You said that. The croc monitors. Should be pretty soon before they drop. Keep us up to date. What kind of nesting do you have prepared for them? Must be exciting huh??? How do you feel?

All monitors are kept inside, not outside. The orange one you see is natural color, i believe they are a sp. i got 3 more oranges coming soon. I will have 5 total, i will produce some hatchlings that will come out with an orange neck, stomach and very blue/green tail like their parents. I keep my oranges in a different type invironment, they get extra humidity and lots of green and foliage, they do not lose that color

Also male 2004" Mr agressive" looks like hes bleeding from his nose. See all that red stuff on his snout? It's called blood. What happened there?

He has no nose rub at all, he just ate 3-4 Rats and blood is from the Rat's Jobi. Heres some close ups at the same feeding time(exact croc) a min or so prior after his 1st or 2nd rat.

You can think whatever you want. Very happy about the eggs,ive got more coming soon (2 clutches). Unlike some, ill share the pics when they(if they) hatch. I want to eventualy produce 30 hatchings per year, i think i will achieve this with the groups i have now. I wont be showing you pictures of how i set them up though, i dont like contridictive advice based on some weird jealose frenchy thing you have.

I have one recent import(2weeks) and ill have 3 more sp.'s coming in soon that will complete my whole project. All others have been in captivity from 1-7 years.

LOL, import shed what?, if you had any experience you would know that females get a bit roughed up on the sides from the males when breeding (claws cut them up somtimes). The one that says sick doesnt mean she has a fever, shes got some cuts on her side and the streatching of skin is keeping her from healing as well as id like. You would know this if your croc's dropped eggs like Pez candy

Good to see you posting some. Most people who come on making claims never show any proof. Guess we know you atleast have a few croc monitors.

I still do not agree with your choice of breeding them to produce so many, but it is your choice. I just hope it is done for the right reasons. I only look at it as not everyone should own them mass producing them only makes it easy for things to go wrong.

Sort of like people thinking they can own a tiger while living in a 2 bedroom apartment.

Female monitors if kept right do drop eggs like pez dispensers. Of course this is with or without a male so doesn't always lead to fertile eggs.

I believe the mention of skin color, is due to yours haveing the darker color with orange tinge. Along with the dark eyes. This coloration is seen mostly with imports. Take any of the ones for sale on KS right now alot of them show the same coloration or look. Check out any c/b and you'll notice a difference.

Here is a close up of one of mine eating.

Very nice looking monitor, i agree they are not for everyone. I also belive that a person who wants a Croc can usualy afford to own one. If imports on average cost $500-600, then a person can shell out another $300-400 for a nice true CB, knowing it is TRUE CB. Ive seen claims of many CB crocs in the USA, rarely do you ever see hatching eggs etc, only hatchlings that appear to be 1 month old and up. Perhaps someday monitors will become much like Parrots in the USA and will need to be bred. Not just for profit, but for dedicated indivuduals who are facinated with the species. Im not aware of anyone who has ever died from a captive Croc, it may happen though.

No person should tell another person they should not have a pet if the pets are healthy and well taken care of. Persons who do this have let their ego run awry (sort of like so-called animal specilists who go out and pick up animals for their TV shows and advise people not to do the same etc).
Reccomendations/advice are great, critisizing is not. Critisizing has never helped anyone or any monitor. Helpful advice helps but critisizing along with contridictions is what causes conflicts. I understand i recently posted stuff that others did not agree with(thats fine). Ive seen pics from long timers that post here that i dont agree with. I would have shown tons of pictures of my setups along with my whole facility, but i dont like the unwarranted acusations and contidictory finger pointing, so i will only show my monitors and even then there is some weirdo saying my monitors are all cut up etc. based on blood on its face and i have to post close up pics to assure them the monitors are healthy, will i get an apology from them being 100% wrong? NOPE!. Will they ever see the contridictions they advise? NOPE!. I spend lots of time with my monitors making sure they are healthy, some have smaller enclosures some have larger, depends on many factors. I posted some pics of some portable enclosures i made (not even finished) and all hell broke loose because i put a monitor in it and how i shouldnt even have monitors, yet the person most critisizing me kept equal sized monitors in smaller enclosures and enclosures i wouldnt even dream of housing a monitor in.

That all depends on the circumstances. In some cases it may be applicable to tell the person what they are doing is wrong, or they need to change things. if the animals well being is sacrificed then that person deffinatly deserves to know what he or she is doing is wrong.

So while yes all people have the capability to own something, that owning something doesn't make it right.

I never said anyone died of keeping crocs nor did i mean that in my post. I have worked with lions and tigers and do not find them all that dangerous, but not everyone should have them. Experience comes into play at some point and there should be some restrictions. Why? well humans have proven time and time again they cannot make decisions for themselves for the most part. Some can some cannot it is that simple.

As for you being harped on yes you did, not all of it was an attack on you though. Most of us just wanted to be sure the newbies realize that cage was not going to hold an adult pair etc. You see while you have experience enough to let you know this others do not. So what gets posted must be done carefully.

An example: I could take a picture of a monitor in a rubbermaid tub. Now while I know why he is in it others do not. They then might start to think this is how they can be kept. Those of us that have been around for a couple years know this and avoid those circumstances.

Another example on the monitor forum someone just asked if they can keep a croc in such and such a cage size for life. It seems simple to know that you need to adjust things according to your monitor but some do not do this. They instead read something and think it applies across the board. Living animals do not work this way. Each is his own and to each you must give them their own.

I have a hot temper, i was upset at Jobi for labeling me as unaceptable to take care of a monitor based on a picture of a 4x8 with a monitor in it, and disregarding the rest of the post that it was a "portable" enclosure and i was making larger "portables" 2 times the size. espcialy when they were the size he reccomended for the croc's he sold.

The reason i made these portables 4x8, 8x8 was to transfer and care for my gravids from the barn to my garage so i can watch them closly.

and the person who i believe is Jobi posting more idiotic stuff about nose rub based on a picture of a moitor with blood on his nose, hes seen other pictures of the monitors at the same feeding time, so he knows its not nose rub. It may not be him posting too, i dont know? I think he posts under many names

thought the blood on your monitors nose looked alot like nose rub. Pictures can be misleading and taken out of context. (you should know that by now) Just becareful it is not you taking it out of context. It happens I am guilty of it too.

Also as far as I know jobi only posts under 1 name. So I'd becareful blaming him without knowing.

there is nothing wrong with making a portable cage, but there is also nothing wrong about giving advice and opinions on it. Thats what forums are for, so if your not ready to hear it all then dont post the picture.

It doesn't help that there has been a ton of new comers to this site that ruined it for others. Most of us that have been around awhile have seen plenty of them come and go. So dont blame us for taking it out on you blame the others who ruined it and have us thinking the way we do.

n/p