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The Boawoman trait was first called Hypo when Sharon Moore produced them. Sharon called them this because when they were born the best term to describe them was hypo; they did and do lack black or dark pigment at birth. The trait is recessive and after talking with Sharon over the last few years we have determined that the trait should be called 'Carmel', or Boawoman Carmels rather than Hypo. You can contact her, as she will tell you the same.

Another thing people need to realize is that when breeding Salmons / Hypos to normal Colombians you are going to get a multitude of looks. You will get great looking Salmons and not so great looking Salmons. You will also get great looking normals i.e.: Salmon Siblings and dog ugly looking normals. Salmons whether they are Ihle line or Gee line will influence the appearance of the normals in each and every litter.

It just seems now a days everyone is looking to slap a name or trait to their better than average looking offspring they produce. Every good looking Boa does not have to be 'something special', but simply just a great looking better than average boa. The term 'Pastel' seems to be thrown around so much we all have lost vision of what a real pastel is. You need to remember that you can breed the best looking normal to one the ugliest looking normals and you are still going to get a couple if not a few gorgeous babies from that litter.

Remember that everything is not always black or white or cut and dry with genetics.

Maybe I needed to vent a little, but it just seems lately that everybody has the newest hottest thing, when in my eyes and my opinion it is just a great looking normal.

Take care,

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BASICALLYBOAS.com
'Specializing in True RedTails & Designer Boa Morphs'

so I'll start things off with one of my favorite NORMAL females.

Take care,
Matt Crabe

we should have our own TV channel.... THE HERP CHANNEL, so we can explain this stuff at a level where people can see and understand through examples...

i vote that since your the one that started the topic you buy the TV station and we can all be your guests... lol

shiloh

I am willing to learn, please explain how hypos are recessive? Do you have pics or a way to prove this? Thanks Andy

he's not saying that hypos or salmons are recessive. he's saying that a certain bloodline from "boawoman" (whom i do not know at all) is showing a "hypo-like" condition but it's passed through a recessive gene, unlike hypos and salmons which are passed through an incomplete dominant gene.

they're two different genetic bundles, is what is going on there.

bc

If we are nitpicking then we have to refer to the dominant hypo lines as Orange tail, and Salmon, not just hypo and salmon.
Saying that only boas from a certain line can be called hypos is like saying only one strain of albinos can be called albino.There could be many more, and I am sure there are many more hypo lines out there now.

Mike, I know you have pictures of that original Boawoman hypo somewhere, do you think you can post her here?
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Davey Giltner

The boawoman hypos or carmels or what ever they are to be called are not being claimed to be a salmon, or orangetail, or what we like to incorrectly call the every day run of the mill "codom" hypo. They are a different trait that showed a hypo resemblence.

By argueing that a recessive hypo can't exist then you are basically saying nothing that shows as a dominant or codominant trait can also have a recessive trait that is similar.. That is wrong.. Pretty much we all know motleys are dominant, or codominant, BUT the argentine black motleys if memory serves are a recessive motley. They are proven to be motleys, they pass on the trait, but are recessive.. Does that mean that they are not motleys? Nope its just a different version of the same outward appearing trait.
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Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com

That is good info, and the info I am looking to get. I am not trying to argue here, I just want people to share what they know about this subject. Thanks Andy

right-o! that's what i was trying to say.

bc

That is very interesting about the argentine Motleys. I want to learn more about them. I had not heard of hypo being recessive before now. I also want to learn more about that also. Thanks Andy

The Salmon and Orange Tail bloodlines of hypomelanistic boas are inherited through a dominant gene. In the case of Boawomen hypos, it is a similar phenotype arrisen from a different genotype. This genotype has a different mode of inheritance.

Sharp and Kahl albinos are similar phenotypes, each has a different genotype, that is why they are not compatible genes!

If you read my post above I said they were referred to as Hypos in the beginning and now are being called Boawoman Carmels. Below is a pic of a few babies from Sharon Moore's 2001 litter. This was a product of a female Carmel bred by a Het Carmel which was one of the female's 1/2 unrelated siblings. Since then there has been only two other breedings. One was done by a very close friend of Sharon's using a Carmel female and a Surinam male, that litter consisted of all normals. The second litter was the one produced this week by Steve (styrsnake), posted below. You can see there is a very visual difference in the 2001 litter pic below. When the other two female Carmels were bred to non-related normals, they yield normal appearing offspring.

Let me know if you have any other questions.
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BASICALLYBOAS.com
'Specializing in True RedTails & Designer Boa Morphs'

That is awesome info. I thank you for sharing. Andy

In characteristic to how different color annomolys are inherited in Boas, I am curious to see what these caramels really are. Hypomelanistic logically explains the reduction in black. However, is it possible it is another form of tyrosinase deficiency? Melanin is being produced and represented, it is just odd.

Hey Mike,

This thread is great. Someone had a litter from a known boawoman hypo, and it produced two different looks in a single litter. If the recessive trait is there, that is good...but what about the 2 different looks within the same litter of boas produced? Thanks Andy

???
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BASICALLYBOAS.com
'Specializing in True RedTails & Designer Boa Morphs'

Hey Mike, I am only trying to understand what everyone is saying here. Why is it that we can't seem to have discussions here that lend themselves to learning and sharing info? There really must be something I am missing here. Thanks again, Andy

....and I am trying to understand what litter you are referring to with two visual differences? If it is Steve's below, again you are looking too far into things. That litter is going to have a few better then average looking offspring. Just because there are a few lighter, bolder colored, darker or even thinner saddled babies, that does not mean that there is something going on and that there are different visual traits. Just a variance among offspring.
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BASICALLYBOAS.com
'Specializing in True RedTails & Designer Boa Morphs'

Thats easy to explain actually...THEY AREN:T CLONES!
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Davey Giltner

If you are refering to the litter posted in the other thread, there is a chance that the litter has 2 fathers.
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Davey Giltner

Thanks Mike for the post. Hopefully this, as well as the pic you posted, clears everything up. I remember this same debate back in 2001 when the first babies were born.
Thanks,
Steve

Did I get cha?
Want to rumble now?
Are you ready?..............Are you ready?........Well, LET'S GET IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John
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"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."

JK Ron St. Pierre,

You really hooked me up and the WHOLE BOA world by taking that Project on and passing it to a few of us.

Just wanted to say hello to everyone, especially you Mike. I'm still alive, DAZED and CONFUSED!!! It is APRIL 11th!!! 8:33 am and I have been scarring my wife taking all my emails and calls because I just went to sleep at 6:33. Now it is 8:50 close to Monday morning first time I'm reading this

MIKE, AWESOME POST, I'll call you later today. BTW, you and a FEW other of my closest friends, THANKS!!!!!

Jax, didn't have his SURG!!!! Becuase I wasn't ready and had a TOTAL NEARVOUS B, DOWN!!!!! I hope you know what I mean. I'll relpy to you later today. BTW I had K shut the phone off for a week. I better change me answe mac.

Just a quick Blizz update incase I jumped the GUN on that nnaming of the proj. 1 feamle left to go, got 14 babies 2 slugs, 2 albinos, 8 anerys, 6 normal looking. I have 1 or 2 more shots, but I should maybe say BS on that project even though I know for a FACT i'm going to be starring at a snow or "B" sooner or later. Should I just say BS with that proj? NO WAY I OWE IT TO MYESELF OF 7 YEAR CHASING THAT DREAM!!! Chat with you later.

That is another thing I will mention later. These 1 out of 16 Double simple recessive traits are a LOT harder then we thinking.

By the way, Black Magic is alive and Well, and for anywone else not know what I'm talking about, here is a picture of her. SHE IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE BOAS, SNAKES NEXT TO THE MOTS!!!!! And she is ALIVE and well, and I would be my 2 left nuts she is a type 2 anery. SEE I GOT THAT ONE OUT!!!

I'll explain more later for those who think I have no skills. It is 8:55AM UT time, and I went to bed at 6:47 AM

Just taking care of the fam with all the stuff on my plate right now.

BTW, Jax, Kara, Kass, and Zack are ALL great, and myself are fine !!! Life is great.
Chat with you later, my Boa Friends.

BTW...I'll get wtih others this week in my own due time. LOTS OF THINGS TO DO THIS WEEK[

Take Care, J

For those who have TRIED to contact me, If i havn't gotten back to you, pleae contact Mike W, or Ryan Mcphie. I'll post later. to this subject today if anyone wants to read it.

BTW killer killer Boa MDC