Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,
I have these 3 sub-adult leopards and I'm thinking they're all girls. The 2 larger ones are over 2.5 pounds, the smaller one about 1.5 pounds. Of course, I'm working on a breeding group. Are they big enough to sex now? All females? If so, I'm considering trading one for a few males so I'll have a breeding group. I would like some unbiased opinions before I go through with the trade. Thanks for any replies.
Paul

Large 1

Large 2

Smaller 1

I would guess they are females all around.

>>Hi,
>>I have these 3 sub-adult leopards and I'm thinking they're all girls. The 2 larger ones are over 2.5 pounds, the smaller one about 1.5 pounds. Of course, I'm working on a breeding group. Are they big enough to sex now? All females? If so, I'm considering trading one for a few males so I'll have a breeding group. I would like some unbiased opinions before I go through with the trade. Thanks for any replies.
>>Paul
>>
>>Large 1
>>
>>
>>Large 2
>>
>>
>>Smaller 1
>>
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Number 3 looks like a little male to me.

I thought so too except that the length from the vent to the tip of the tail seems to be too short but at that particular size it is tough to be sure.

>>Number 3 looks like a little male to me.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Good points. But the flat anals are a giveaway. This is still a small animal so only time will tell though. But I would guess that within a year or so, the tail will elongate and the plastron will dent.

Here's a group photo for Chad...Left to right would be top,middle,bottom above.

Here's a close-up of the smaller one. The flash really helps see the tail. So...Should I wait another year and reconsider the males/female trade? If the smaller one's a male, I'd end up with 3.1 instead of the 2.2 I'm shooting for. Thanks again for sharing your opinions!

In this photo the anals appear more rounded and not as flat as in the other view.
Maybe it is a girl after all.

I don't really put a great deal of faith in the shell morphology in captive raised tortoises.

I also agree that these animals have a habit of 'changing sexes' on you as they get older but they all do look like females to me and they are nice looking animals.

>>In this photo the anals appear more rounded and not as flat as in the other view.
>> Maybe it is a girl after all.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I'd agree!! All females, Do you have any other pics? I'd like to see the middle leopard.
Chad

I'm not trying to be different/difficult.. but you know me.. the "anal scute" guy.

#1.. is the male.. and I also agree.. you have nothing to lose by waiting.. they are nice looking LEOS!

These "smaller" leos are a pair? Male on left? (go ahead.. tell me about it)

Terry

Yeah,
I picked that one when it was about 1.5 pounds. Based on the shape of the anals, I thought it was a male. Recently I saw a male, maybe 1 pound at a reptile expo and it's tail was so much longer and thicker than anything I've got, I decided mine were all girls. There is so much variation in the shape of the anals, I'm starting to think that would only work for a group of siblings raised under the exact same conditions. Seems lots of people are selling temperature-sexed hatchlings these days. Wish I had that luxury (or knowledge) when I started! Would 2005 temperature-sexed male hatchlings mature in time to breed these? Hmmm....
Paul

Paul,

FWIW.. I acquired 2 4" WC (from the same shipment)in 4/98. By 4/04 I had a 13" female and a 9" male.. paid $70 each back then.. oh the good old daze!! I can't say I turned them belly-up everyday.. but he seemed to be "more narrow" in width all along.. (which seemed to be an indicator and why I chose him out of several).. while I was waiting for his tail to "grow"? Then eventually the scutes broadened and so did his tail.. at about 7" or so.

She turned out to be a beauty! It's just too humid here in TN.. so she is in a drier climate now.. making babies.

Terry

WOULD A 2005 "male" HATCHLING MATURE SOON ENOUGH??

Only if the females die as very, very, very young adults!!! I don't doubt there are 50 year olds out there making babies Paul.

I'm sure my "heirs" will be old before my 7 yr. old Redfoot tortoises quit making babies.. (raised from hatchlings)!

Terry

For the first potential breeding season of my now 8" "girls".
Thanks for the replies!
Paul