Reptile & Amphibian Forums

to much security as in to much hides and barrows. wont come out often. retreats to often from movement outside his enclosure. so im asuming longer to earn their trust correct? i figured if i just had two hides (not barrows though) on hot side and cool side he shouldnt spend to much time hidden. the more he's out the sooner he'll realize im not a threat?

any opinions? am i wrong?

thnx guys

if your uro wants to hide, he will hide regardless of how many hides are in the cage. if there was only one and he was on the other side of the cage when you walked in the room, he could be under that hide in .1 second. the key is to let him get used to the cage, make sure he is eating and then slowly get him used to you. sit in the room with him with little movements and then start holding him for short amounts of time and slowly increase the amount of time holding him. also when you hold him, give him a treat. whenever i go to open the cage now, hugo runs TO me because that little porker thinks he is getting a treat. i have had him since october. helga, on the other hand, doesn't mind being held and doesn't mind my presence but there are days where she will run from me like the wind and i have had her 11 months
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vonnie
***There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. Mary Wilson Little ***

I'm going to say that if the tank is not secure with enough places to hide, he is less likely to come out of the one he does have.

Example: A box in the middle of an open desert, or a box in the middle of a forest. Which would you come out of sooner to explore? I know I wouldn't leave my hide if there was no other security nearby and I would be exposed. I'd be much more likely to poke my head out and walk around if there was some other cover in the area that I can hide under if I get scared.

Give your uro enough hides to be happy and he will come out when he feels safe enough to come out. Stress is a stepping stone to illness, so keep him as stress-free as possible, and he will come around on his own.

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~ Vamppire
Queens, New York City

Well, we're back to the statements I made in your other reply. You're trying to operate on YOUR schedule and not the little horrified animals. "...retreats too often...", "...too much security...", these statements suggest your agenda.

Can YOU have too much security? If we take away all your sources of income and make you live on the street are you likely to become a more loving and harder working individual? I doubt it. I expect I'd tend towards severe depression. These are traits that may flourish through security, but there are chances your animal may never exhibit them to the extent you expect.

If it won't come out often, cover the cage. Let it be, but check on it often enough to note whether it's eating or not. There is a general sequence of events that will happen here if you pursue the animal at an uncomfortable rate for long enough:

1- it will hide more often.
2- it won't eat as much because it's busy hiding.
3- an undernourished animal will lose weight.
4- an undernourished animal will be more subject to illness.
5- ill and undernourished animals have a tendency to die.
6- ill animals are more expensive to take care of emotionally, monetarily, and time-wise.

As I noted before, the Uro may not have any interest in being tamed. Over time it MIGHT become accustomed to you and over time it may continue to have no interest in you.
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2.4.0 uromastyx geyri (Saharan/Nigerian)
0.0.4 uromastyx hardwickii (Indian)
2.3.0 uromastyx macfadyeni (Somalian)
1.3.0 uromastyx ocellata (Sudanese)
"Yes, it's a problem. No, I don't want to talk about it."

my question is.. why teach your pet to need a sense of (to much)security? and im only applying this question to captive breed uros. if he was wild caught i would understand. so why teach your uro to be afraid of you?

The Uro has a natural instinct to be afraid. Instinct is all this animal has to operate on. Instincts are a sort of hard-wired natural programming that's accepted to be present in all animals besides humans. The only difference between a captive born Uro and a wild one is that the captive one has not had to fend for itself and it -might- be more exposed to humans... it might also not. The instincts present in each animals brain are going to be identical.

The Uro doesn't know you from any other predator it's programmed to recognize. They are fairly low on the food chain and therefore are highly subject to predation by larger animals. You must first present an environment to your Uro that is safe and then introduce yourself -gradually- as non-hostile.

Let's make an example. You've got an Aunt Mabel. Aunt Mabel likes you A LOT and loves to give you big sloppy kisses when you come to visit. She's about 5'2" and 200lbs. Her breath smells like tuna and mayonnaise and she loves to kiss with her tongue. She's got a giant fuzzy mole on the top of her lip that you know rubs you when you get those kisses and it gives you the creeps. She squeezes you so tight you feel like you're going to pop. She's also got this loud shrill voice that startles you.
Now... your parents take you to see Aunt Mabel and as teh car door opens you see this behemoth of an aunt come running towards you, almost screaming your name, eyes wide, arms wide, and you can smell the tuna already. What's the firt thing you want to do? Run? Go Home? Now, picture yourself as Aunt Mabel and the Uro as you. That Uro wants to get the heck out of Dodge. In order for you to be comfortable around Aunt Mabel it's going to take some time and some quiet, calm, and probably hygenic interaction before you don't cringe at the sight, smell, or sound of her, but even then you may still not like her. Maybe you will always be inclined to run away from her an there's nothign anyone can do that will cause you to want to be near her. The same is true for your Uro.

Relax. Take some time. Don't force the Uro to do anything it doesn't want to do. You will know it doesn't want to playwhen it:
Sits very very still.
Closes its eyes.
Runs.
Hides.
Wiggles its body.
Hisses.
Whips its tail.
Bites.
Not necessarily in that order, but these are some of the reactions you can expect if you pressure the animal.
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2.4.0 uromastyx geyri (Saharan/Nigerian)
0.0.4 uromastyx hardwickii (Indian)
2.3.0 uromastyx macfadyeni (Somalian)
1.3.0 uromastyx ocellata (Sudanese)
"Yes, it's a problem. No, I don't want to talk about it."

Please stop spreading rumors about Aunt Mabel. It's squid on her breath, not tuna. hahaha!

oh yeah, i agree with the others...undue stress on wild animals, whether captive bred or not, will surely lead to health problems including a possible early demise.

Giving him a secure home is not "teaching him to be afraid of you."

You have to understand that you should be getting a Uro so you can give the Uro a good life, and you can have the enjoyment of observing his behavior. The uro comes first.

I'll give another example to try to illustrate:

Pretend you were just put into a glass box in someones home. (someone who is about 500 ft taller than you, remember.) How would you feel if you were given one little place to hide, terrified to go eat and venture out because you have no idea if that huge monster out there will eat you or not, and you have no cover to escape to other than that one little hide here, and one other one allllll the way on the other end of the box. Even if that monster never actually tried to eat you, that doesn't mean he never will, and you are taking a risk every single time you go out to eat. Even if you get a tiny bit more confident to come out eventually, playing the odds that this time he won't lunge at you, you will certainly not associate that monster with good things, remembering how terrified you were all that time.

Please remember that you must not touch or pick up your uro for awhile after you first get him. Imagine the above scenario, but this time the monster grabs you a few times. Doesn't eat you, but scared you out of your wits to the point where you just never want to come out of your hide to sit in the sun or eat. After all, in your mind, maybe he WAS going to eat you, but you managed to escape that time. Its been 3 months and I havent touched my mali yet. She's finally letting me close to her - to grab her would shatter 3 months of work.

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Alternately, you could be put into a glass box that has plenty of rocks, caves, logs, nooks and crannies. You are aware theres a monster out there somewhere, but you're pretty confident that you can make it to your food bowl without exposing yourself. If he sees you, you know you can go hide under that other rock over there quickly. Being more confident you are safe, means you are less scared of the monster. After awhile, you'll be living your life, exploring your territory with secure confidence, and will come to realize the monster out there has his own little life going on and doesn't seem interested in you. (after awhile, you may start to notice he's the one who replenishes that food bowl, and will associate him with good things... and may even start to forget he is about 200 times bigger than you are and not be so worried if he decides to come a little closer to the tank each day.)

Do you understand? You can't force someone, person or pet, to trust you. Putting someone in a stressful situation will not make them like or trust you at all. True trust takes time to build, and this time is up to the uro, not you, and it varies from uro to uro. The uro needs to be secure in his home, and satisfy that basic need, before he can start to trust anyone else.

Its not just you, its something all people go through with their pets.
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~ Vamppire
Queens, New York City

being captive bred doesn't matter, it helps but it doesn't change everything. as i read somewhere once and i don't remember where, you can't take thousands of years of evolution out in one generation
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vonnie
***There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. Mary Wilson Little ***