Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey
Im planning on building 3 cages stacked on top of each other.
I kinda drew up "plans" of what i want it to look like. Well ive built a cage before and i used mdf and i put like the stuff on some counter tops on it. Im not sure what it was called. I think i am going to do the same thing except I dont think the mdf would be strong enoungh for the stack. It worked well on the first cage. but this time i was going to use like either 1/2" or 3/4" ply wood and put the counter top stuff on it, I think it might be fromica. but maybe not. well i guess my question is, is the ply wood with the fromica on it good. Is there a better choice. Im using the fromica to make a smooth on the snakes and to keep the water from getting on the wood. Oh and I want to seal the edges of the cages what is my best option doing that.
thanks in advance
joanthanM

Well in regards to the use of formica on plywood.

If you use a cabinet grade plywood ( smooth flat finish) you will be ok but then u defeat the use of formica or others on it due to the cost of the wood itself being covered by a expensive formica.

MDF-

Is the better choice due to the ultra flat surface and smooth finish it has on the edge grains( no voids like some plywoods can have even the good stuff can have voids that will cause a bad adheresion(sp) to the side grain of the plywood. you said you had worked with formica before ? how much ? it can be very daunting applying it to a already built cage ( by this i mean its better to laminate ALL parts then assemble them making sure good coverage of the glue is applied to the wood . A hint in applying formica that will save you headaches ... take cardboard strips and lay across the surface to be apl;ied to once the glue tacks up lay the formica over the strips and then pull them out one at a time using a J roller found for like $20 or less in Home improvement stores . this will allow ya to make sure its placed right before going into a fight with it being off and sticking to the glue cause once its there that it it doesnt move agfain without shattering . also be sure to pick up a "Laminat edge trimmer for like $12" this will trim the razor edges of the laminate on the litter dams etc or use laminate router to bevel the open ends of the laminate . over all i think the use of FRP and liquid nails would be a cheaper and just as durable finish and cost less then applying laminates to the project lamiating takes time and skill to create a class job and of the edges are not trimmed will slice you like a chefs knife so keep that in mind what ever ya decide
hope this helps
Alan
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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....My Boa Can Kick Your Boas _ss!www.cheapcages.com

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edited sig file 2/8/05

Hey
I am considering using like heat tape, instead of lights, so the cages could rest on each other with the heat tape in between. My question is is it safe to put the heat tape in between wood, will the heat get through the wood, even if it was 1/2 or 3/4 in? So if i build the cages I will probably put fromica on the bottom floor only. What do you suggest i do with the rest of it, is contact papper an option for the walls? or some kind of paint or coating. What is the FDP you talked about in your post? sorry for all the questions I just want these cages to be really good. heres a pic of the last cage i built all in fromica, but unfortunatly it is of no use to me anymore, I was trying to sell it to my friend with a ball python but he doesnt have the room for it.

np

I am considering using like heat tape, instead of lights, so the cages could rest on each other with the heat tape in between. My question is is it safe to put the heat tape in between wood, will the heat get through the wood, even if it was 1/2 or 3/4 in?

This can be easily done. I'll repeat a design I have often suggested to many people.

Cut a rectangle out of the floor of each cage. Make it 2" longer and wider than the size of heat tape you anticipate using.

The cover the entire floor with a piece of expanded PVC, also known as Sintra. This happens to be the same material Jungle Habitats uses for their cages.

Then use foil tape to attach the heat tape directly to underside of the floor.

Route a small groove for the cord to run out of the back.

This improves the cage in many ways.

1) It makes the floor much more durable and moisture resistant. This is nice since it's the part of the cage that gets the most abuse.

2) It makes the floor easier to clean. This is nice for the same reasons in #1.

3) The foamed interior of Sintra makes it very heat conductive which means a more natural thermal gradiant will be acheived.

4) It increases the thermal mass.

5) It makes the cage safer due to the air space.

6) It also makes the cage lighter.

Another option is to skip the wood floor altogether and just staple a piece of Sintra to the bottom rim of the cage. This really saves weight. It's plenty strong since the plastic floor will be supported by the top of the cage below.

For the bottom most cage simple make a platform with casters for the cage to rest on.

Some people are not comfortable with not having the structure of a wooden floor. This is not a big deal, it's little different from having a thin luan back like you so often see. I have seen it used in cages up to 8' long.

What do you suggest i do with the rest of it, is contact papper an option for the walls? or some kind of paint or coating.

Really whatever you want. If you want a stained look, then stain and a clear coat. Probably an oil-based product, depending on the species.

Contact paper is an option but I prefer the vinyl film that is used to put graphics on store fronts or vehicles. It's much more durable than contact paper and actually cheaper if you buy an entire roll.

Paint is another option. It really depends on what species these cages are for.

What is the FDP you talked about in your post?

I believe he said FRP, which is Fiberglass Reinforced Panel. It is that textured plastic you often see lining the bathrooms of restaurants, gas stations, places like that.

It's very durable and relatively affordable, but I'm not crazy about the appearance. Worth looking at, though.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

hey, to make my question easier to find i underlined them
OK this cage thing is alot harder then that one i built, that one i kinda just did it without thinking about it, turned out good, but this one I am considering all my options and it is a lot of options. Im sry for asking all these question. But I have quite a few snakes, right now these 3 will be for an albino rtb a nic boa and a green burm. And once the green burm grows out of it, i will put either a blood or another rtb in it. with that said, I think i need to start from scratch. What are some good types of wood and how thick? The cages need to be 5'x30"x between 1 & 2 feet. Although I am considering 6'x30" cages I cant decide if a male brum will out grow a 6 enclosure, I've had a few babies that Ive sold, And i have had an adult female, which was pretty big, but I've never had an adult male, so im not sure exactly what to expect, Im guessing between 8-10ft. Sry back to my questions. What are the best options for covering the wood to make it not rough on the snake and to make it getting wet not a problem? Also what do i use to seal the edges? What are my best heating options, Flex watt, or a light blub outside the cage, or a light blub inside the cage with a screen around it? I have been going through alot of the old post and read one about sheets of pvc, seemed easy if i had the reight tools, but would that be good for my situation? Im really sorry about all the questions, if someone could answer them I would appreaciate it so much.
thanks
joanthanM

What are some good types of wood and how thick?

The one really versatile wood I like is birch or maple laminated plywood. Either 1/2" or 3/4". I like that it's smooth on both sides and readily accepts stain, paint, or even laminated finishes. Very versatile in that regard.

But instead of lising woods that are good, it would probably be easier if you listed what you like and we can inform you of any potentional concerns.

The cages need to be 5'x30"x between 1 & 2 feet. Although I am considering 6'x30"

Without boring you with the math, once you go over 4' with cages it starts to get quite tricky to use material efficiently. You can easily get into a situation where you double the amount of wood you buy and end up with a lot of odd sized and unusable scrap pieces.

I would encourage you to limit the cages to a 4' length for everything but your Burmese. Build separate cages for them when they are adults.

If you really have to have a longer cage then 6'x24" will make for better use of material.

What are the best options for covering the wood to make it not rough on the snake and to make it getting wet not a problem?

For the species in question this is WIDE open. So many options.

What look do you want? Clear coat, solid color? Or what?

Also what do i use to seal the edges?

What edges? If you mean the interior edges then silicone caulk is most popular.

What are my best heating options, Flex watt, or a light blub outside the cage, or a light blub inside the cage with a screen around it?

Best would be radiant heat panels. But if these cages will be in a well heated room then undertank heat sources of some type are fine.

I have been going through alot of the old post and read one about sheets of pvc, seemed easy if i had the reight tools, but would that be good for my situation?

Expanded PVC really does not require any special tools, although they do make things easier. I think it is a great material for the do-it-yourselfer, at least for cages up to 4'x2'x2'.

If you join the material with the PVC corner angle the only special tool I'd really want would be a miter saw to cut the angle. Even then you could probably get away without it.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Hey,
thanks for the reply. Ok i have given it some thought. I drew up some revised "plans", more a visual but none the less.(below) Ok do you think it is possible to keep this project under $500? My only concern with the plan below, is will it be ok to put two 4 foot cages ontop of a 6 foot? I really dont care what kind of wood it is, as long as it is strong and doesnt split when I put a nail in it. So do you think it would be a good idea to put fromica on each of the floors, and put like a stain or epoxy or something on the outside and walls? I dont know what kind of stains or epoxy to use, what do the stains and epoxy actually do? I want it to make it smooth so when my snake rubs it's nose on it, it wont get a rub spot, and I also want it to withstand humidity and spraying, I dont care to much what color or finish as long as it looks decent, what should i use? And yes I did mean the cracks in the corners, would any normal clear silicon caulk work, if i let it air out? I cant think of anymore questions right now. Again thanks so much for your help.
thanks
jonathanM

Ok do you think it is possible to keep this project under $500?

That should be possible. But it really depends on which way you want to go. Light, fancy, cheap, or what.

My only concern with the plan below, is will it be ok to put two 4 foot cages ontop of a 6 foot?

Yup, no problem.

So do you think it would be a good idea to put fromica on each of the floors, and put like a stain or epoxy or something on the outside and walls?

Formica seems awfully expensive for the floor that won't be seen. I assume you'll have it covered with newspaper substrate at a minimum.

You sound like a good candidate for a melamine cage with the interior coated with either contact paper or vinyl sign film.

You could certainly keep that under $500, maybe not including the heaters.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Hey,
I've heard good and bad about melamine, like the surface is water proof but if the water gets on the side it will fall apart. How do i keep it from getting wet, especialy if one of the snakes tips a water bowl. liek would the silicon bead around all the inside edges be good enough to keep the water or misting from causing problems? I was under the impression melamine was smooth like fromica, so why would i have to put something on it? The reason I wanted fromica is because my snakes often go under the paper even if they have plenty of hides in the cage. So I dont want the snakes to be sitting or rubing on a rough surface. So I dont have to do any reinforcing of the bottom cage? not sure if i mentioned it or not but i plan on making all the cages out of 3/4" if that matters. thanks
jonathanM

I've heard good and bad about melamine, like the surface is water proof but if the water gets on the side it will fall apart.

Actually, I would not call the surface of melamine waterproof. It's somewhat water resistant, but not water proof.

How do i keep it from getting wet, especialy if one of the snakes tips a water bowl. liek would the silicon bead around all the inside edges be good enough to keep the water or misting from causing problems?

The job of the silicone is to prevent this. Understand that this is true of any 3/4" wood or engineered lumber, not just melamine. More on that later.

I was under the impression melamine was smooth like fromica, so why would i have to put something on it?

What I like about melamine is that it's a cheap way to get a finished exterior without really having to do anything. But I'm not crazy about in for a finished interior. Just not water resistant enough, from my experience.

The vinyl film would pretty much make it as close to waterproof as you could reasonably expect. If you had the vinyl film extend onto or over the edges and then used silicone instead of wood glue that would provide a lot of protection. Then you would also silicone the finished edges.

The reason I wanted fromica is because my snakes often go under the paper even if they have plenty of hides in the cage. So I dont want the snakes to be sitting or rubing on a rough surface.

I understand that. My only point is that there are other choices that are cheaper and easier to use than formica.

So I dont have to do any reinforcing of the bottom cage?

No, in fact I've even built cages without bottoms and simply stapled rigid plastic sheet right onto the base of the cage.

It sounds like you could go in any of several directions. Just give some thought to how you want the cages to look and go from there.

I'm not stearing you away from epoxy coated wood for any reason other than cost. The problem with epoxy is that it's not only expensive, it also does not go as far since it needs to be applied so much thicker than paint or polyurethane. So it really gets expensive. It takes $50 worth of Envirotex Epoxy to coat one sheet of plywood on one side, for example.

Regarding formica, if you have some leftover, enough for this project, then by all means use it.

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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)