Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am currently looking at purchasing a snake (I will admit, I have fallen for all the amazing color morphs on Kings and Corns), but I have a problem. I have never owned a snake, never handled a snake, and have never dealt with any type of snake taming, feeding, etc. I have been a herper for 22 years, and in that time I have kept just about everything you can legally keep. I have kept nearly all the monitors (I have three different species right now!), gators, chameleons, large iguanas, Urmastyx, Suclattas..you get the picture. The only I haven't done, is a snake. So, whats the best choice for an experienced Herper, but very inexperienced snake man. Keep in mind, I have never even handled a snake (I did "pet" on at the Columbus Zoo last week..a red ratsnake I believe??) I would prefer somthing that doesn't get as large as a python, and something with a great temperment would be great, since I get enough sass from my monitors. Any and all opinions will be considered, and I thank you all in advance!!

well I first got into snakes a little over a year ago, and i'll tell you, you learn fast. That's for sure.

I started with a genetic morph of a black rat snake. These guys grow to be about 7 feet long and are some of the most docile north american snakes there are. I had also never handled a snake before, and a word to the wise is don't dodle around before you pick the snake up, reach in and grab it (as i'm sure you know from handling the lizards and such.)

Some I would reccomend:
Colubrids - a colubrid is a breakdown in the scientific classification. These include kings, milks, rats, corns, and many other less commonly known snakes (which i'm not even going to list because i've heard there can be problems getting them to eat.)

Kings and milks - very pretty, however from everything i've been told they're very flighty as babies, meaning that they won't stay still in your hand. While rat snakes will be moving around, kings and milks will literally be racing out of your hands.

North American Rat Snakes:
Corns - they are actually a sub species of a north american rat snake. they grow around 5-6 feet at full size, and have a pretty docile tempermant, however can be nippy as babies.

Black rats - grow 6-7 feet as adults, more natural colorful mutations than you can think of. check out mike jolliff's ads on the classifieds, he has a poster he made of a lot of different types. He's who i got my first black rat through, and I'd highly reccomend him. More than happy to answer your questions, also.

Texas rats (in particular the Texas Bairdi) - These are a little more nippy than the others, but what can you expect they're texans with attitude! These are kinda ugly ducklings, but grow to be beauts! Not too expensive, grow to be about 5-6'.

Yellow/everglades rats - these are both a little more agressive than a black rat, similar to a texan. they grow 5-7 feet.

gray rats/gulf hammock/white oak - grow 5-6 feet, fairly docile from what i've heard (which isnt much.) I have them in the wild around here, never had a problem with them when handling in the wild.

I'd go into the classifieds section and look for pictures of those, go to the specific forums and ask questions. That's probably going to be how you'll find the best one for you. Also when you narrow down to one type, you will probably get reccomended something close to that which may fit you better that I haven't mentioned here!

best of luck.
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-Chris

0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat
1.0 Black Rat
0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty
1.0 Green Tree Python
0.1 Texas Bairds Rat

The educated are the few. The uneducated are the masses.

North American Rat / Corn Snake Care Sheet

I agree, especially when it comes to ratsnakes, my personal favorites. If, in fact, you have fallen for the various corn morphs...by all means start with one. I think that you will find that with your experience, snakes (especially corns/rats) are the easiest "new" pet you have cared for in a long time.

Chris...You changed your "handle" right? Remind me what it was before, so I can make the transition. Gotta love those ratsnakes!! Duffy

Chris,

I appreciate your bias towards black rat morphs (which are neat snakes), but I think you are selling some of these other snakes a little short.

Kings and milks - very pretty, however from everything i've been told they're very flighty as babies, meaning that they won't stay still in your hand. While rat snakes will be moving around, kings and milks will literally be racing out of your hands.

I don't think this is a fair generalization. Yes, some milksnakes are squirmy little beasts as babies, but most kingsnakes, particularly the larger subspecies, are as calm and docile as a corn baby and generally a lot hardier (they are bigger and heavier bodied).

Corns - they are actually a sub species of a north american rat snake. they grow around 5-6 feet at full size, and have a pretty docile tempermant, however can be nippy as babies.

Cornsnakes are a separate species of north american ratsnake, not a subspecies. Most baby corns I have produced or handled are not inclined to bite at all.

Black rats - grow 6-7 feet as adults, more natural colorful mutations than you can think of. check out mike jolliff's ads on the classifieds, he has a poster he made of a lot of different types. He's who i got my first black rat through, and I'd highly reccomend him. More than happy to answer your questions, also.

Agree about these snakes, except to say that this subspecies is at least as nippy, if not more, than the cornsnake.

Texas rats (in particular the Texas Bairdi) - These are a little more nippy than the others, but what can you expect they're texans with attitude! These are kinda ugly ducklings, but grow to be beauts! Not too expensive, grow to be about 5-6'.

You are confusing two different species of snakes here that have different personalities.
Texas Ratsnakes (Pantherophis obsoleta lindheimeri) are relatives of the Black Ratsnake. They are generally similar to Black Rats although they don't get quite as big (6-7 feet) and they sometimes have a more aggressive personality. But there are dog tame Texas Rats just as there are mean Black Rats.
They do change in color as the grow, but less so than a Black Rat (baby TX rats and Black rats are very similar looking).

They are also kind of an "up and coming" star in the snake husbandry world as more and more people get them and fall in love with them.

Yellow/everglades rats - these are both a little more agressive than a black rat, similar to a texan. they grow 5-7 feet.

Again, most captive born yellow/everglades rats are as docile as captive born black rats and wild caughts are as feisty as many wild caught black rats.

There are a lot of really neat species available right now for the "entry level" snake keepers.
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Chris Harrison

Thanks for the clarification, Chris. I haven't ever kept a milk or king snake, so that is strictly what I had come to a consensus from what everyone has told me.

I have a texas rat and 2 black rats, did have 2 texas rats for a while, and they were both much more defensive than my black rats. And from reading everyones posts, and from helping with my friends snakes, thats how i had gotten the general consensus on the other species. I have a friend with a full grown yellow rat (CB, he raised from a neonate) that he can't even handle this thing is so crazy. my texas bairdi was very nippy as a baby but she's mellowing out (she's about 10 months old right now.)

i left off the childrens pythons and rosy boas as he said that he was looking for a snake that wasn't going to grow that large in girth. however i do love my friend childrens pythons.

Thanks for your input on those tho.
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-Chris

0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat
1.0 Black Rat
0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty
1.0 Green Tree Python
0.1 Texas Bairds Rat

The educated are the few. The uneducated are the masses.

North American Rat / Corn Snake Care Sheet

I think with your experience, you would do fine with any of the rats,kings or even a well established yearling milk.

Here are my choices, not in any order, as they are all great and hard to say which are the best!!

Rat snakes
1. Black rat snake - I like these the best of all the rats. They are the largest and are dog tame if raised properly. Even mean adults tame down with regular handling. Although there are always going to be the exception to the rule!! These babies come in a variety of morphs and locales and natural colors! Awesome snakes, and never turn down a meal, natures trash compactors!!

Here is a pic of my Bullitt county locale black rat. He has a little more yellow than the average, but this is how they are here in KY.

Here is a pic of my Saline county locale MO black rat. Notice how black these guys are?? Just like some of the eastern board black rats.

Here is a pic of an albino produced by Dwight Good. Dwight has some killer rat snakes, and just about all of mine have came from him!

Now here is a pic of an everglades rat, also produced by Dwight Good.

Here is a greenish rat, also Dwigh Good stock. These are a natural intergrade occuring where the black rat and the yellow rats ranges overlap.

Here is a yellow rat, also Dwight Good stock.

And a picture of a KY locale corn snake. This is a normal corn.

Now on to the kings:

Here is my female california king. She is Het albino and probably why she is so bright yellow.

For comparison, here is my male, he is het nothing. Just a plain old coastal phase. Not even a pretty one, but what he lacks in colors, he makes up for in size. He was pushing 5' last fall. I havent measured him in a while, and he is still growing.

Here is a KY locale black king snake. These are IMHO, an underrated snake. These snakes are very hardy and are very, very docile.

And here is a KY locale prairie king. Another of my favorites...

How about a Florida king...these come in a multitude of morphs and make great pets as well!!

Here is a desert king. Not too many morphs of these guys, but a beautiful snake nontheless...

There are a few other kings I dont have that would make a great pet. The Eastern, Brooks, and Speckled are on my list to add and are some nice snakes.

Some of the milks would be great as well. The Honduran, black milk, and even an eastern yearling that is well started would make great snakes.

Hope this helps, and if your not careful, you will have lots of snakes in no time!! They are very, very, very addictive!!! LOL
Brian

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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Well I have to put a plug in for Ball Pythons. I too, never had a snake until three years ago when my then 10 yr old son begged me for a snake, any snake, at a reptile show. I held a ball python and fell in love. They are slow movers, which I liked. With 5 cats, I didn't want something that could get away from my son. I know some will probably say that there are other snakes that are good for beginers but in my opinion, you would be very happy with a ball python. I have one male that is now 3yrs old and he is about 3-4 feet long. I don't expect him to get much bigger and a yr after I got him I got a female. My son and I would argue over who got to hold the snake so I got my own. She is 4-5 feet long. At 2 I am not sure if she will get any longer. I have never had any problems with feeding her. The male sometimes goes on fasts but not often and not usually for long. They are both very docile.

At the top of my list for docile would be some of the kings in the mexican complex. Thayeri Kings and Grey-bands are as calm and docile as you could expect. Just make sure you get some that are feeding on pinkie mice. Especially with Grey-bands. For the larger kings, I'm a big fan of Eastern and Florida/Brooksi kings. Very laid back, tractable snakes. My 04 brooksi is as laid back as any snake I have. They grow to an impressive size, and have a voracious feeding response. Mexican Black Kings are high on my list also. Wonderful Kings. Cal. Kings are hit and miss with me. Some are great, some have been demons.
For Ratsnakes, Bairdi are hard to beat. They tend to be more calm on average, then some of the other species. As far as the larger obsoleta Ratsnakes, some can be nippy/nervous as babies, others can be calm right from the start. Most will turn into calm, impressive adults. Texas Ratsnakes on average have been a bit more aggressive then some of the others. Atleast to me anyway, LOL

Steve

Well, everyone has their own opinions. I'd suggest the smaller pythons - Children's, Savu, spotted, or Stimson's (or anthills if you want to drop some big $$). The liasis (Savu) are terrific eaters, but can be a bit nippy when they are in their cage at a young age. Not a big deal, as they become more docile as soon as you get them picked up. Plus they stay small (3-5 ft adults). Plus you get to seem them gradually change color from orange to almost black as they get older.

And the antaresia pythons are VERY docile and also stay small. Personally, I'd go with any these over a ball python just because they don't go on hunger strikes like the balls are notorious for doing.

The Savu is my first snake, and she's been a joy to have. Even for a total noob like me, she's been easy to handle. Plus Savus are semi-arboreal, so every night she comes out and perches, making for some excellent viewing.

-Imp

I'm only inexperienced myself. I'll start by saying that i think the fact that you have owned reptiles before means that you are probably more ready for a snake than you think you are, and are obviously committed to keeping animals properly.

So, I would suggest an Australian Python of some sort. My favourite is the Jungle Carpet Python (Morelia Spilota Cheynei). They have spectacular black and fluoro yellow colourings.

They grow to from 6 - 8 feet, generally, but there has been the odd nine footers. KEEP THIS IN MIND: you have a good 2 years before you have to worry about any Australian Python getting more than 5 feet. GO THE AUSSIES!!

also the statement nothing as big as a python is a little confusing as pythons come in all shapes and sizes. But I am guessing you mean length(8 feet) and maybe girth. But there are good starter pythons and boas that have been mentioned and i think they would be a great choice for someone with such experience with exotic lizards assuming you are looking for an exotic snake.
I am terribly addicted to my new Irian Jaya Carpet python who will most likely stay under 6' and stay pretty slender and a have a rich color and pattern. my two late cents
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Love small boids always looking for new ones.
1.0.0Hogg Island Boa, Quey
0.0.1Ball Python, Apophis
1.0.0Irian Jaya Carpet Python, Riddick
1.0.0Spotted Python
Snakes to get list: Solomand Island ground boa, Soloman island tree boa, Bolivian Boa, Savu(or sawu or sabu all work) Python, Rosy boa(san felipe or san matias) and ATBs. Have any of these guys? or have recomendations for me? email me