Reptile & Amphibian Forums

im planning out a cage before i get a gtp and i had a few questions. i have read alot that many people prefer removeable perches, is this necissary? i plan to make a very naturalistic setup and this would be much easier if i didnt have to make the perces removeable. i know they are benificial for cleaning, but i am going to make the bottom a removeable tray so i can clean the bottom of the cage without disturbing the snake. in addition the recomended size that i have been reading is 24" cubed, i was wondering if it would be bad to give the snake more vertical spack, say about 36". i will be usings a false ceiling with heat lights and also either a misting system or a humidifier (leaning towards the misiting system since i have been reading that they get their main water from drops on coils).
thanks
jay

Personally, 24" wide is way too small for a full grown gtp. I would agree with Greg Maxwell of Fine GTP's that you need at least 36" wide. Mine are 48" wide. (www.finegtps.com - he also wrote "The Complete Chondro" - a book i would highly reccomend you buy before you buy your first chondro). When you go above 24" tall, then you're going to make it kinda hard to heat. My Chondro is probably around 4 feet, and he uses every bit of his cage (length wise). He has 2 perches, one closer to the heat panel and towards the back, one lower and closer to the front, which gives him room for thermoregulation. I would reccomend no less than 2 perches, I've seen many cages with 3 perches in them.

My perches are not removeable, however my guy never complains about getting out, and he is full grown.

This brings us to another point. If you get a neonate, you should not put it in a big tank. It will make it really scared and probably will give you a hard time eating. I wouldn't give it anything bigger than a 10 gallon tank to start (not reccomending an actual 10g tank, just the size of one.)

This should last them at least a year and a half, then move on up in size. I also reccomend to go to the Morelia Virdis forum and ask over there, there's a lot of people that know extreme detail on chondros.

http://p219.ezboard.com/fmoreliaviridisfrm1
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-Chris

0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat
1.0 Black Rat
0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty
1.0 Green Tree Python
0.1 Texas Bairds Rat

The educated are the few. The uneducated are the masses.

North American Rat / Corn Snake Care Sheet

I dont think 24" cubes are small.

could just be me though...

I don't either Julian. I'm actually going with a 20" cube. Personally, I think a 20-24" cube is perfect. The bigger the cage, the harder it is to calibrate.

Brandon Osborne

All of my adult cages are 20x20x24 tall. I think they are perfect for an adult Chondro. I have several adults that are in the 6 foot range and they have more than enough room. I have 3 perchs in each cage and they do crawl around at night. When I went and saw Trooper Walshs collection he had all of his adults in rubbermaids that had to be under 72quarts. He had bigger breeder cages that I think were 48x24x24 for when he paired them up. I don't know of that many more people that have kept and breed these than Trooper so I think the rubbermaids are fine in size.

Tim Rash
www.nocturnal-creations.com

I just got a nice clutch from a pair that was bred in the 73 qt. Sterlite tubs. The female has been kept in this setup for the last 2 years and has been doing just fine in it. 15 eggs and 100% fertility. I considered replacing all of my cages with this type of rack, but I enjoy looking at them too much. lol.

Brandon Osborne

well i think it seems that 24" cubes are ok for cage size in most opinions. i want more of a vertical cage for display an di would have many perches probably more like five or more. i am going to play around with heating to provide more of a vertical than horizontal gradient. would this work or is my cage ideas not going to be benificial for the snake. also i know not to put a baby in such a large cage untill it is larger. thanks again for the information just want some conformation before building.
jay

Hi Jay,

It will work fine, but in my experience of keeping an adult female in a 4' tall cage for the last 6 year, she chooses the top perch 99% of the time, and is usually sitting in the same spot on the perch. It can also be difficult to maintain humidity, but you have to work with it. I place a large rubbermade of water in the bottom of the cage, with two 4" PVC couplers near the top and middle to hold 16 oz. deli-cups of water. It still must be misted at least every other day. This is the only cage that requires this much work. Most of the other cages get misted once a week, and sometimes less. Most people recommend a cage with a horizontal gradient rather than a vertical.

Good luck.
Brandon Osborne

thanks for the reply, and your experience helps. i am pretty sure i will have no problems with humidity as i can either use a humidifier on a timer or a misting system on a timer; still not sure which since spraying will be needed but it is much easier to keep humidity high with a humidifier. i have not gottan a chance to work with the heat gradient yet as the only cages i have to play with are only two feet tall. the other thing i was thinking about maybe to give more of a variety temperature spots would be to have the lights off to one side so it would give a slight horizontal gradient as well as the vertical.
i have also came to another question .. i know some gtps will use waterbowls so i would like to have one available, but i was thinking if it was at the bottom of the cage then it might not be found or used due to its location. i plan to cover all the walls with false rock and i could easily put a ledge with a waterbowl insert like half way up in the cage, putting the water in a temperature which the snake will most likely be in. i have been pondering this idea but have yet to get a change to build the skeleton of the cage to play around with these ideas yet.
thanks again for the replys they have been helpful so far with idea formation.

thanks for the reply, and your experience helps. i am pretty sure i will have no problems with humidity as i can either use a humidifier on a timer or a misting system on a timer; still not sure which since spraying will be needed but it is much easier to keep humidity high with a humidifier. i have not gottan a chance to work with the heat gradient yet as the only cages i have to play with are only two feet tall. the other thing i was thinking about maybe to give more of a variety temperature spots would be to have the lights off to one side so it would give a slight horizontal gradient as well as the vertical.
i have also came to another question .. i know some gtps will use waterbowls so i would like to have one available, but i was thinking if it was at the bottom of the cage then it might not be found or used due to its location. i plan to cover all the walls with false rock and i could easily put a ledge with a waterbowl insert like half way up in the cage, putting the water in a temperature which the snake will most likely be in. i have been pondering this idea but have yet to get a change to build the skeleton of the cage to play around with these ideas yet.
thanks again for the replys they have been helpful so far with idea formation.

Well, I have never used heat panels or anything high tech in any of my setups. I use lightbulbs in all of my breeder cages and it serves as the heat source as well as the daytime light source. I placed the lights off to one side to give a slight heat gradient. Different animals like different temps.

As far as the water tub in the bottom, if the snake moves around enough, they'll use it. The only time my female ever ventured to the bottom of the cage, was during gestation. She picked the coolest spot in the cage right over the water. Try the PVC couplers on the sides. You can get them at Home Depot or Lowe's for about $1 ea. You should be able to get 16 oz. deli-cups at any grocery deli counter.....and they will use them redily.

I don't know what to suggest for the humidity issue. I manually spray all of mine when needed. When you start using auto misting, it tends to make you pay less attention to detail when it comes to the animals.....I don't know this from experience, but this is what I've been told by many keepers that have used auto misting systems. If you're collection isn't that large, I would go with manual spraying.

Good luck and post some pics when you get it all set up.

Brandon Osborne

i appreciate the help very much. i think i may have been confusing in what i was asking and in reading what you were saying. i think you and i are talking about the same concept with the deli cups. and as far as heating i think ill be using the same method just will have to work with intensity and such to get the propper gradient. thanks again for your help, i think i have everything straight for when i can start building.
jay

not that i doubt your smarts on this... but i always test a cage for 48 hours before i put a snake inside... haveing several thermometers in testing all potential hot spots...

i had a friend fry a beautuful boa several years back after building an awesome cage because he was using a bulb that was too hot...

better safe then sorry... and would probably be in the snakes best intrest...

good luck

shiloh

thanks for the concern, i always test my cages before putting any animals in. the snake will not be able to come into contact with the bulbs and the temp and humidity will be tested way before the snake is even ordered. thanks again.
jay

I've had light bulbs burn on in the dead of winter. I would highly suggest changing your light bulbs every few months or just not using the things all together. I use heat and heat tape for all my cages and tubs. I'll never go back to light bulbs, ever!

As far as lightbulbs go, I don't use ANYTHING above 40 watts. These don't get hot enough to burn unless the snakes decide to hang on them for a couple of hours. They produce enough heat, but you can grab them with your hand no problem. You'll have to do some tests with wattage and room temps. Durning the summer I use a 7.5 watt bulb in my cages, as my room stays around 80-82.

Brandon Osborne